The Open Carry Argument

[Cameramonkey]

You miss the point. The point is, carrying a self defense tool, does not make own immune to attack. Going back to the article in the OP, OCers are targeted far less than those who are CCing. Once again, criminals rarely target hard targets and prefer to target soft targets (or appear soft). Why risk life and limb to rather than picking a softer target? The element of surprise is a myth. You state that you can't outdraw a drawn firearm. This is true for most people (including myself), but how are you going to outdraw from concealment with an attacker with a gun in his hand? Do you not see the logical fallacy here?

Easy. Its called waiting for the opening. There isnt always one. But sometimes if you play your cards right, you can win. Lots of examples of CCers prevailing if you follow ASP and others. Even Some of our own trainers here on INGO discuss and train it. And even if you cant, he might get your wallet and not find the gun.

But if he is bold enough, sees the gat on your hip and confronts you knowing its there, he is less likely to take his eyes off you, or more likely disarms you first and THEN takes your valuables.

And as you said. APPEAR soft. Carrying yourself confidently, head on a swivel, and obviously aware of your surroundings goes a LONG way to making the attacker decide you arent a good mark. But if you're walking down the street, obviously oblivious to whats going on around you, (earbuds in, nose in your phone, etc) you make a good target, OC or CC.

 

[gorge]

Easy. Its called waiting for the opening. There isnt always one. But sometimes if you play your cards right, you can win. Lots of examples of CCers prevailing if you follow ASP and others. Even Some of our own trainers here on INGO discuss and train it. And even if you cant, he might get your wallet and not find the gun.

But if he is bold enough, sees the gat on your hip and confronts you knowing its there, he is less likely to take his eyes off you, or more likely disarms you first and THEN takes your valuables.

And as you said. APPEAR soft. Carrying yourself confidently, head on a swivel, and obviously aware of your surroundings goes a LONG way to making the attacker decide you arent a good mark. But if you're walking down the street, obviously oblivious to whats going on around you, (earbuds in, nose in your phone, etc) you make a good target, OC or CC.

You could be a former MMA fighter and still get attacked...

Pair sought after attempted carjacking, stabbing of former MMA star in New Berlin

A driver who got out to check his vehicle after being involved in a crash was stabbed early Wednesday morning in an attempted carjacking, police said.

www.wisn.com

Again, you can appear to be a hard target and still be attacked. Are there benefits for OC? Sure. Are there downsides? Sure. Are there benefits for CC? Yes. Are there downsides for CC? Yes.

This gets truer and truer to me as I get older:

 

[wtburnette]

Found this interesting. Corroborates what John Lott, Jr. found during his interviews with criminals while doing his research:

Felons Really Don’t Want to Get Shot​

Noted in “Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms,” 1994, Professors James D. Wright and Peter Rossi performed research for the National Institute of Justice. The pair interviewed and polled felony prisoners in 10 state correctional systems. Fifty-six percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would not attack a potential victim whom they knew to be armed. Thirty-nine percent of the felons had personally decided not to commit a crime because they thought the victim might have a gun, and 8 percent said that this had happened “many times.” Criminals in states with higher civilian gun ownership rates worried the most about armed victims.

source: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/gun-facts-and-fiction/concealed-carry/

 

[Bugzilla]

I prefer to open carry because, well just because.

 

[Combat Engineer]

I am used to open carry because of my military service.Oddly enough here in southern Indiana and northern Kentucky no one seems to notice.Only thing I ever get asked is "What Calibur is that"?After two tours in a really bad place you get to a point that instinct puts your hand exactly where your side arm is Most criminals are cowards...I don't fear one trying to disarm me.I do believe that armed people repel criminals....here's to hoping I never have to kill a US citizen.

 

[cedartop]

If OC allows me to carry more comfortably and more often, is that still a good thing?

If CC allows me to carry into more venues and therefor more often, is that still a good thing?

Will OC make one a target? Will CC not distinguish one from other non-carrying targets?

IMHO: arm yourself, get training, have some level of awareness, avoid higher-risk areas whenever possible, don't associate with criminals, carry in whatever way works for you.

This is a very good post, though I will say, I have seen very few well trained people who open carry. I have had a part in the training community for many years now and as a whole OC is frowned upon. Of course that in and of itself doesn't make OC wrong.

 

[Combat Engineer]

This is a very good post, though I will say, I have seen very few well trained people who open carry. I have had a part in the training community for many years now and as a whole OC is frowned upon. Of course that in and of itself doesn't make OC wrong.

Maybe that I need updated training.This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan.Unless crap really hits the fan I guess real world combat experience means little back in the states.That being said I've got some killer awareness I didn't have before.I don't think any class or training can come close to giving me better.

 

[cedartop]

Maybe that I need updated training.This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan.Unless crap really hits the fan I guess real world combat experience means little back in the states.That being said I've got some killer awareness I didn't have before.I don't think any class or training can come close to giving me better.

As you are well aware the military and war time is a completely different animal. That being said, I can't think of one SF guy that I have trained with that endorses OC. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong and there really is no good answer here as both sides are convinced they are right.

 

[wtburnette]

As you are well aware the military and war time is a completely different animal. That being said, I can't think of one SF guy that I have trained with that endorses OC. Again, that doesn't make it right or wrong and there really is no good answer here as both sides are convinced they are right.

Plus the JFC camp who say to just carry responsibly using either/or...

 

[2A_Tom]

NO OBC!

 

[2A_Tom]

Some will enjoy this.

 

[wtburnette]

Some will enjoy this.
View attachment 189578

If that's supposed to be referring to people who OC that's a fail. If it's for Tactical Timmy's, I'll allow it...

 

[bwframe]

 

[cbhausen]

I OC’d in the Brownsburg Walmart two days ago. Walked right into the Easter candy section and one aisle back to look for plastic eggs for an Easter egg hunt. The aisles were packed with moms with their young kids and older women. I think I was the only male in the vicinity. I spent probably five minutes or so in that part of the store and it was entirely uneventful. I went to the self check out, scanned my items, paid for them and left without incident. The way it should be.

 

[wtburnette]

Very good video, thanks for posting. I agree with most of what he says, but do at least somewhat disagree about not open carrying so as to not scare or offend the public at large. The only way to normalize open carry is to do it. The fewer who open carry, the easier it is for the Left and others to point out those who do as a small minority. Why should it be allowed when so few take advantage of it, even in places where it's already allowed? His example of someone being scared or offended because they have been a past victim of gun violence, or lost someone to gun violence is sad, but to my mind not a reason to infringe on the rights of gun owners who choose to carry openly. Should we worry about someone who lost someone in an auto accident from seeing me driving my car? I'm just saying you can easily take sensitivity too far. Otherwise, very informational and it's good to see things from an expert's point of view...

 

[tmcindy]

I CC mostly because many places will throw you out if they see you carrying a gun. Sad but true.

 

[tmcindy]

I OC’d in the Brownsburg Walmart two days ago. Walked right into the Easter candy section and one aisle back to look for plastic eggs for an Easter egg hunt. The aisles were packed with moms with their young kids and older women. I think I was the only male in the vicinity. I spent probably five minutes or so in that part of the store and it was entirely uneventful. I went to the self check out, scanned my items, paid for them and left without incident. The way it should be.

I wonder if that's the exception or the rule?

 

[actaeon277]

I've OCd for years. Not thrown out yet. (Don't OC in doc offices or hospitals)

 

[wtburnette]

I wonder if that's the exception or the rule?

No, it's not. Most people just don't notice.

 

[tmcindy]

Well, maybe I should try OC'ing.