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  • Randy Harris

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    248
    28
    You are he one that brought up that you do not give it away free.

    "As to education...I prefer to educate in a class environment not in Walmart or the gas station. Being an unpaid OC crusader generally has a lot of potential downside with little potential upside."

    Again your opinion.

    BTW I am an OC Advocate, not a crusader. I do not accost people, but when someone asks a question I am happy to talk to them. This happens often and I have not had a real negative interaction in years.

    The one listed with the contractor in Hammond would be one of the worst.

    The point is, do what you please and misinform your Johns as you will.
    Wow really? My “John’s”? I assume that’s another petty attempt at insulting me again because I make money from teaching people how to shoot well, avoid trouble and stay within the law? So now you are insulting my students , several of whom are respected members here on this forum? Wow.

    I don’t see where I said anything that could be taken as insulting to you personally. Apparently though my cogent logical difference in opinion based on my years of education and experience and carrying a gun in public for 30 years makes you uncomfortable enough for you to have to resort to insults. Which probably says more about you than about my “John’s”.
     

    gorge

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 26, 2021
    207
    63
    Earth
    Wow really? My “John’s”? I assume that’s another petty attempt at insulting me again because I make money from teaching people how to shoot well, avoid trouble and stay within the law? So now you are insulting my students , several of whom are respected members here on this forum? Wow.

    I don’t see where I said anything that could be taken as insulting to you personally. Apparently though my cogent logical difference in opinion based on my years of education and experience and carrying a gun in public for 30 years makes you uncomfortable enough for you to have to resort to insults. Which probably says more about you than about my “John’s”.
    So OC is not within the law?
     

    2A_Tom

    Crotchety old member!
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Sep 27, 2010
    25,979
    113
    NWI
    OK, OK, we are walking a fine line here. So let us stop.

    Your anecdotes are no more than that.

    I have never been accosted by nere do wells while OC.

    I have been accosted twice by people that seemed to be bent on my harm in the winter while I was covered by a coat. In both instances when I turned to confront them and brushed aside my coat they left hurriedly.

    I have had one encounter where one of the kids left the front door unlocked and a shaggy guy walked in. I stood, put mu hand on mu sidearm and commanded him to get out.

    Those accounts are what you call anecdotes, they prove nothing. The same as yours.
     
    Last edited:

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I've been OCing in NWI for a "while".

    I'm tired of all the times I've been arrested, crowds pointing at me, being the first shot in robberies, etc.

    Especially when I'm with Tom.
    GIF-OMG-shocked-spit-take-wow-GIF.gif
     

    Randy Harris

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    248
    28
    Avoiding trouble- as in not doing dumb stuff like going to the atm in a bad part of town at 3 AM or going with a shady acquaintance to “pick up something” in a run down apartment building or picking fights with people in public.

    Stay within the law- teaching folks to respond to violence with the appropriate level of pro social lawful violence without ending up in prison because you thought you could shoot someone for threatening to punch you or for pushing you as Michael Drejka found out.

    Nothing in that snippet of what I said had anything at all to do with OC and it takes some real effort to read that into it.

    No one is arguing whether it is legal or not. It is obviously legal in both your state and mine. We were having an adult conversation about whether it was smart or at least I thought we were ....
     

    gorge

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 26, 2021
    207
    63
    Earth
    Avoiding trouble- as in not doing dumb stuff like going to the atm in a bad part of town at 3 AM or going with a shady acquaintance to “pick up something” in a run down apartment building or picking fights with people in public.

    Stay within the law- teaching folks to respond to violence with the appropriate level of pro social lawful violence without ending up in prison because you thought you could shoot someone for threatening to punch you or for pushing you as Michael Drejka found out.

    Nothing in that snippet of what I said had anything at all to do with OC and it takes some real effort to read that into it.

    No one is arguing whether it is legal or not. It is obviously legal in both your state and mine. We were having an adult conversation about whether it was smart or at least I thought we were ....
    I just wanted to sharpen the point of what is legal and what is not. It appeared in your post you were insinuating OC is legal but not smart. However, OC is smart in many situations (darn near all). It makes you a hard target for the criminal. Just because there are idiots out there who think OC is legal, doesn't make them right. Police should know the law, but often do not. I've had to education a few officers as well on what the law is.

    Now, to address this post, what if you do have to go to the bad part of town at 3am for whatever reason, like dropping a friend off, delivery food, getting out of work, etc? Wouldn't carrying be a smart thing to do? Or should the person remain unarmed? Should the person appear to be a hard target or a soft one? There are plenty of soft targets (or appear to be soft, CC) out there. I will agree, staying out of a fight is a fantastic idea, but what if you are the one being attacked and not able to deescalate a situation? Should you not be armed to defend yourself from great bodily harm? I'm sure you could have added it and just didn't because it is hard to rehash these situations in every single post.
     

    Randy Harris

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    248
    28
    Where did I say ANYTHING about being unarmed?

    If I’m awake and not somewhere with a metal detector or otherwise prohibited from being armed (like in a foreign country ) I’m carrying a gun or 2 on me. But you’d never see them until I need them. So the Open carry or no carry is a straw argument that I never made .

    And some people are hard targets simply by how they carry themselves not by what’s openly carried on their hip. I’ve seen plenty of openly armed folks that give off the vibe of a cheeseburger waiting to be eaten that would not be armed for very long if someone decided they wanted to take the gun. I’ve also seen people that are not openly armed that give off the vibe that no one in their right mind would want to test them.
     

    wtburnette

    WT(aF)
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    44   0   0
    Nov 11, 2013
    26,862
    113
    SW side of Indy
    There's good info on both sides here folks, why don't we just call this a difference of opinion and move on? I'm a strong advocate of JFC or carry as you will. I'm also a strong proponent of train as much as possible and to practice situational awareness. Don't go out late at night, if you don't have to. Don't go to a known bad part of town, if you don't have to. Carrying a gun doesn't make you invincible and it's not a magical talisman against harm. You still have to use common sense and situational awareness. Carry the way you feel best, be responsible, follow the laws and God Bless.
     
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