The Open Carry Argument

[infidel]

No source needed. As I suggested, it's just my opinion which is the basis for my choice. I'm not trying to sell it, just stating it. You wanta' OC, then by golly OC. I just don't want everybody to know I'm armed.

Sorry, I thought you were stating it as fact. My bad.

 

[infidel]

I think it would be interesting to know how many people will actually read the essay in the first message in its entirety and comprehend what it's saying before posting a message here.

Is there some deeper meaning to it than most people are going to get? I read it but took it for what it is. Is there a secret message in there somewhere or....I guess I just don't get what you're saying.

 

[rhino]

Is there some deeper meaning to it than most people are going to get? I read it but took it for what it is. Is there a secret message in there somewhere or....I guess I just don't get what you're saying.

I'm saying that I think it would be interesting to know how many:

• Are going to look at the topic title or the first few words of the message and then post their own, typically espousing their choice for carry and perhaps denigrating open carry. They'll do this without reading the essay or considering the points made there or the rhetoric and facts used to support the assertions.
• Will assume it's the exact same arguments they've read before, and then act as per the item above.

In my experience, those who are vehemently against open carry are quite emotional about their opinions and their position is based mostly if not entirely on those emotions as well as erroneous assumptions or assumptions that have no basis in fact. While one may choose to disagree with the essay's points, it is well-written and based on logic.

I'm hoping people will actually read it and think about it, but I am not confident that most will, especially those who stand to benefit the most from reading it.

 

[infidel]

I'm saying that I think it would be interesting to know how many:

• Are going to look at the topic title or the first few words of the message and then post their own, typically espousing their choice for carry and perhaps denigrating open carry. They'll do this without reading the essay or considering the points made there or the rhetoric and facts used to support the assertions.
• Will assume it's the exact same arguments they've read before, and then act as per the item above.

In my experience, those who are vehemently against open carry are quite emotional about their opinions and their position is based mostly if not entirely on those emotions as well as erroneous assumptions or assumptions that have no basis in fact. While one may choose to disagree with the essay's points, it is well-written and based on logic.

I'm hoping people will actually read it and think about it, but I am not confident that most will, especially those who stand to benefit the most from reading it.

Thanks for the clarification.

I too believe that it is a horrible idea to close yourself off to the other side of the spectrum if you are a CC only carrier - or an OC only person. If there is only one argument that is in favor of OC that you will read, it should be this one.

 

[Lars]

My primary goal when I’m out and about, besides whatever I went out and about to do, is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime.

Unless he defines which is more important, doing what he set out for, or not being the victim of a violent crime. The rest of his essay is pointless.

If I set out to have lunch with my wife while she's at work, and I choose to open carry. I, and possibly she, are unlikely to have a good time.

*Shrug* The rest of the discussion has been had at least a dozen times since June '08

 

[in_betts]

Well Rhino I saw this post yesterday but held my comments until reading the OP as I strive to maintain an open mind. I have very rarely OC'd and it is not really in my typical comfort zone. I have NO problem with OC in principle and it certainly doesn't bother me at all. I would gladly participate in an OC type march or protest but have been a CC person for so long it "feels" more natural to me.

Living near the Ohio border and having relatives I visit there frequently I am always a little more on guard when crossing the state line. While my Utah NR license currently makes me legal, MANY of the laws of Ohio are different and anyone travelling there should be aware of that.

Having said all that I do believe this particular essay is one of the better I have read on the subject even if it doesn't result in any change in my behavior. It may however help with those less comfortable with OC in general, like my wife. Of course her view is more rooted in "old views" and not really backed up with rational arguments.

 

[Bastispah]

Yeah, I suppose I could have just parsed out the fresher points and suggested folks dig through a dozen bloated threads for the rest...

'cause nobody likes a summary.

who cares if its been talked about before. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME,I, AND SURELY OTHERS HAVE READ IT!!! If you don't want to read it for the upteenth time DON'T READ THE THREAD !!! But some of us haven't been on here since the Alamo and its new to us. The whole point of this thread is to convey info. I get so sick of people saying "thats been covered". Just move on to the next thread. leave us newbs to our info gathering. This was for you US Patriot, not ATM

 

[edsinger]

I read this and found it to be very informative indeed. I choose to CC most of the time, but will OC on occasions. The arguments for both sides make sense.

The main thing against OC to me is the hassle one gets from the 'person with a gun' calls. It has not happened to me yet, but I haven't OC in many places it could as of yet.


I want to thank the OP, I have not read this and it was good for me to read it. It made good sense and was well thought out.

 

[rhino]

Living near the Ohio border and having relatives I visit there frequently I am always a little more on guard when crossing the state line. While my Utah NR license currently makes me legal, MANY of the laws of Ohio are different and anyone travelling there should be aware of that.

You're right about Ohio laws being different. It's always good to know the local laws well before you go there.

Interesting bit of recent Ohio history/trivia:

Before they had their permit/license to carry, it was legal to carry openly, but few knew this. One of the big reasons why the law creating their permit/license was passed is because of some very public marches some RKBA-activitists held where people openly carried their handguns. It may not have been the only reason, but it helped their cause quite a bit.

 

[kingnereli]

No source needed. As I suggested, it's just my opinion which is the basis for my choice. I'm not trying to sell it, just stating it. You wanta' OC, then by golly OC. I just don't want everybody to know I'm armed.

Opinion or not, don't you need to have some sort of rational argument to go on? If not, what are your opinions based on. Did you glaze over the part about preparing for the most likely scenario? If you hold the opinion that you won't OC because it may make you an target yet there is little to no evidence to support it; what would make you think that opinion holds any water?

In other words, you do need evidence to make that sort of claim.

 

[SSGSAD]

I know we've been around this block a few times here but I ran across a link to this post and thought that it was one of the best written pieces I had read on the subject.

The author expounds on many of the points that have been debated in several different threads here and across many other forums for years.

Since this post captures so much and adds a bit that I don't recall even seeing here before, I will give it its own thread instead of burying it on page 10 of one of the existing threads.

Long but very interesting read IMO.

(source link) The Open Carry Argument





ETA: If you didn't already, go back and click the BLUE link. It is well worth the additional reading.

I can attest to that, I managed an armored car company, for a while, all our guards were armed and in uniform, I had a messenger in a place of business, and the bad guy hung out in the business, until my man got in the armored truck, and was out of sight....He then robbed the place, during the police interview, he admitted he did not want a confrontation with my armed guard.....

 

[bass pro]

oc or cc the best idea is to stay away from situations that may require you to use a gun.

 

[Joe Williams]

Opinion or not, don't you need to have some sort of rational argument to go on? snip

To be honest, I don't think he does. It's always a possibility. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't sooner or later. If the possiblity would make him uncomfortable carrying, then the discomfort alone is good reason for him to stick to CC, IMHO.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Expecting any thing from any "deterrent" factor is nothing more than going in to the situation bluffing or counting of the bluff factor.

You can't bluff your way through every single day.

 

[ATM]

Expecting any thing from any "deterrent" factor is nothing more than going in to the situation bluffing or counting of the bluff factor.

You can't bluff your way through every single day.

Who's bluffing?

...the hyena can see the lion’s teeth and knows to stay well clear.

The lion is neither bluffing nor counting on the hyena to stay away.

Staying away from lions is just what cowardly hyenas do.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

You should be a salesman for Open Carry.. then someone might care.

 

[kingnereli]

To be honest, I don't think he does. It's always a possibility. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't sooner or later. If the possiblity would make him uncomfortable carrying, then the discomfort alone is good reason for him to stick to CC, IMHO.

You may be right and no one needs to justify their carry choice by me. It is just that as common as opinions are I offer more respect to those that are clearly logically deduced. It would be like someone who is uncomfortable setting foot in the woods for fear of a bear attack. It is a highly unlikely event (though seemingly more likely then OC gun grabs) but it may happen sooner or latter. Would that person's discomfort be sufficient reason to stay out of the woods. Sure, probably. Is it just plain silly. Yeah, probably.

The silliness doesn't really come through in the OC vs. CC debate because so much of the gun culture is oriented around individual rights and "to each his own"(as it should be.) We tend to be very accepting about other people's personal choices whether we agree or not. That too is a good thing. Although an unfortunate result is that we tend to be very indifferent to personal choices in which the person has every right to hold, but happen to have little bases in reality.

Personally I would hate to see anyone give up OC or CC entirely. I think the gun community is best served by a mixture of the two. I am so avid about OC simply because, in my experience and observation, OC and CC haven't yet reached an ideal balance. There are still rumors and misinformation repeated about some imagined consequences and risks of OC. When I see carry choices made based on that abounding misunderstanding I'm just a little disheartened.

 

[jdhaines]

I carry concealed myself, but that was a very well thought out essay which included some ideas I hadn't thought of. It at least makes you think about his points and how you can counter them...if you can counter them...with my/your CC ideas. Hmm.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Who's bluffing?



The lion is neither bluffing nor counting on the hyena to stay away.

Staying away from lions is just what cowardly hyenas do.

OK if you say so. Seems to me after reading a lot of "lions" around here promoting wearing their teeth on their sleeve for the main reason of "deterrent". It's about their biggest arguement, "deterrent". Funny thing is all the teeth for sale around here never seem to have been used and are all "NIB" or used no more than a couple times. ROTFL

 

[infidel]

I don't get it Jack, could you clarify? Because there are guns for sale on an internet forum means they don't deter criminals?