The Open Carry Argument

[gorge]

Why face palm? You can see he is right, by all of the accounts in the media and because the FBI UCR has a separate line item for it.
...

Do you have a link to that I can look up? Please and thank you

 

[2A_Tom]

Sorry, Gorge.

I put the ellipsis in purple. That was sarcasm.

There are a few anecdotal incidents of concealed carriers being disarmed.

I have never seen a news report of an OCer being targeted and the FBI has no such line item.

It is interesting that those against OC can never produce the evidence to back their assertions that OC is dangerous.

 

[gorge]

Sorry, Gorge.

I put the ellipsis in purple. That was sarcasm.

There are a few anecdotal incidents of concealed carriers being disarmed.

I have never seen a news report of an OCer being targeted and the FBI has no such line item.

It is interesting that those against OC can never produce the evidence to back their assertions that OC is dangerous.

Concealed Carrier Has His Gun Stolen During Robbery Caught On Camera – Concealed Nation

Many of us do it; carry a gun every day. One of the things at the top of our minds is to never let the bad guy gain access over your firearm. If it does, trouble is definitely going to follow. A concealed carrier in Houston had that happen, and it was captured on his […]

concealednation.org

Concealed Carrier Robbed of Gun in Philadelphia

The concealed handgun carrier was robbed of his handgun in a strong arm robbery. The story illustrates one of the disadvantages of concealed carry.

www.ammoland.com

CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED: CC'er Robbed Of Gun In Walmart Bathroom In Opportunistic Theft – Concealed Nation

MEDFORD, OREGON — A 25-year-old concealed carry permit holder walked into a Walmart Thursday with this firearm, and walked out without it. The reason? A few criminals apparently noticed his firearm and took advantage of this knowledge. Around 9:17 p.m., police say the victim was carrying the...

concealednation.org

This Concealed Carrier In Texas Got Robbed Of His Gun By The World's Dumbest Criminal

This Concealed Carrier In Texas Got Robbed Of His Gun By The World's Dumbest Criminal

bearingarms.com

There are more of course, but I decided to keep it brief.

I've only heard of a handful of OCers targeted.

Open Carrier Robbed Of His Gun At Gunpoint By Two Teens – Concealed Nation

HOMUA, LOUSIANNA — A 21-year-old armed citizen, who was openly carrying his handgun, had it stolen at gunpoint when two teens approached him. Luckily, the teens didn’t make it far and were arrested by a patrolling officer who was in the area. The police department shared the following...

concealednation.org

Headline: Man practicing open carry law robbed of gun | Buckeye Firearms Association

As editor of BuckeyeFirearms.org, I have the opportunity to read articles posted to our site well in advance - even weeks in advance, as is sometimes the case when an author submits a draft for consideration.

www.buckeyefirearms.org

 

[wtburnette]

Know your audience (environment).

 

[jamil]

I read the OP article. The author makes some valid points, but cavalierly disregards the very real possibility that a thug will target someone for their gun.

Either way, both OC and CC are useful forms of carry with distinct advantages and disadvantages, and we are better off as a society that both are practiced.

This thread is almost 12 years old, almost 200 pages of comments. Could it be that the cavalierly disregarded point has been discussed A LOT? Why no. Obviously no one has thought of, Idunno, a 5-year old girl snatching an OC’d firearm.

And, I get that my reference was in a different thread. Oh and a dandy of a thread that was. But I’m pretty sure it’s been exhaustively discussed in this thread. Years ago.

Not trying to be an ******* here. Though it does come naturally. I get that it’s a lot to read. But maybe you’ll find the discussion others had way back then. And then if somehow no one thought to challenge the cavalier point. Go for it.

 

[2A_Tom]

OK, no argument here, just a couple of anecdotes.

Working in Hammond, not a bad part, but off an alley in a fire rehab by myself. In this situation I carry even while working.

1. Another contractor that shoots but does not carry, gives me quite a bit of flack (not harshly) just what he believes well reasoned opposition. It scares/ offends people and so on.

2. I left that afternoon and stopped at a gyro joint. After I ordered I went to he restroom to wash my hands. As I turned the corner I noticed a gold star. I stopped, strong side toward him and said County? He said, no Hammond. I said Captain! He responded, you have good eyes. I got my food and sat down at a table facing him and we talked. He never mentioned my big honkin 1911 on my hip.

 

[wtburnette]

1. Another contractor that shoots but does not carry, gives me quite a bit of flack (not harshly) just what he believes well reasoned opposition. It scares/ offends people and so on.

When I first started carrying I worried about scaring or offending people, but have since decided I don't give a F what other people think. If they're offended or scared by my decision to protect myself, that's on them.

 

[gorge]

When I first started carrying I worried about scaring or offending people, but have since decided I don't give a F what other people think. If they're offended or scared by my decision to protect myself, that's on them.

You can't reason with those who suffer with hoplophobia.

 

[Randy Harris]

Take this for what it is worth.... this was in Chattanooga TN where Open Carry is legal with a permit .

A couple of my coworkers went to lunch one day at the Dairy Queen just down the road. One was carrying "semi concealed" as it was in an OWB holster with his t shirt somewhat covering it. (We dress pretty casually at my day job). They order their food and just after they got seated and started eating 3 police officers with guns drawn come through the door and surround them....

Turns out that someone (we think it was the store manager) called the cops and said (according to the cops) "someone is in here waiving a 9mm around" . Lynn was not "waiving" anything around and the gun never came out of its holster and the extent of his hand being anywhere near the gun was pulling his t shirt down to cover the gun up when the t shirt rode up while in line. Yet someone saw it, called the cops and created a dangerous situation for all involved....

Same town, at a Cracker Barrel a fellow open carrying at breakfast one morning gets surrounded by police and escorted outside to talk ....turns out a little old blue hair lady from Illinois who had stopped in for breakfast saw the gun and called the cops.....

These are 2 instances I KNOW of in my town where a visible gun lead to a potentially dangerous situation...not from criminals but from busy bodies calling the police. If you get accidentally shot by the police it hurts just as bad as getting shot by the bad guys.

 

[2A_Tom]

So , are you an out of stater trying to make a point about carry in Indiana, or do you now live in our beautiful state?

Education is one reason I Openly Carry.

I have helped many understand IC (Indiana Code), both sworn and unsworn civilians.

In both of your anecdotes the situation was resolved without bloodshed.

 

[Randy Harris]

So , are you an out of stater trying to make a point about carry in Indiana, or do you now live in our beautiful state?

Education is one reason I Openly Carry.

I have helped many understand IC (Indiana Code), both sworn and unsworn civilians.

In both of your anecdotes the situation was resolved without bloodshed.

No I live in TN but do travel to and occasionally teach classes in Indiana and a bunch of other states .

As to education...I prefer to educate in a class environment not in Walmart or the gas station. Being an unpaid OC crusader generally has a lot of potential downside with little potential upside.

As to those situations being resolved without bloodshed...Luckily..... but those situations wouldn't have happened AT ALL if their guns had not been visible. Relying on luck is not a good strategy and I prefer to be invisible to not only the the criminals, but the police and the "Karens" also. Those last two cause more trouble for gun carriers than the criminals tend to.

 

[2A_Tom]

Well, That Is your opinion.

I do not fear being accosted by the police. In fact I have had a few teaching opportunities with them. I have walked away each time and I believe they spread the word.

If you read post #3966, this is now the type interaction I have with every officer I have met in Northwest Indians for several years now.

I am not in it for the money like you. I am in it for freedom.

Both of your anecdotes were great teaching opportunities, but you must be determined and huevogigantus.

 

[Randy Harris]

Well, That Is your opinion.

I do not fear being accosted by the police. In fact I have had a few teaching opportunities with them. I have walked away each time and I believe they spread the word.

If you read post #3966, this is now the type interaction I have with every officer I have met in Northwest Indians for several years now.

I am not in it for the money like you. I am in it for freedom.

Both of your anecdotes were great teaching opportunities, but you must be determined and huevogigantus.

Not everywhere is NW Indiana and metro areas (no matter what state) tend to have a different reaction from police to visibly armed people than rural areas. Especially when the original busy body caller made it sound like a mass shooting was about to kick off.

And I really hope the "I'm not in it for money like you" is not the same old tired passive aggressive thinly veiled insult that people try to use against professional firearms instructors who have spent their entire adult lives teaching people how to legally, morally, ethically, effectively and efficiently defend themselves from violent crime and collect a paycheck for their services just like a doctor, lawyer , preacher or carpenter would.

 

[KLB]

No I live in TN but do travel to and occasionally teach classes in Indiana and a bunch of other states .

As to education...I prefer to educate in a class environment not in Walmart or the gas station. Being an unpaid OC crusader generally has a lot of potential downside with little potential upside.

As to those situations being resolved without bloodshed...Luckily..... but those situations wouldn't have happened AT ALL if their guns had not been visible. Relying on luck is not a good strategy and I prefer to be invisible to not only the the criminals, but the police and the "Karens" also. Those last two cause more trouble for gun carriers than the criminals tend to.

Luckily? If it was lucky there was no bloodshed, then you must be able to point us to all of the bloodshed from similar situations.

In your first instance, the person making the call should have been arrested for making a false 911 call. In the second, the 911 operator should have asked if anyone was actually in danger.

 

[Randy Harris]

Luckily because any time you are held at gunpoint by the police who have gotten a call of someone waving a gun around things can go sideways.

 

[GRAVES219]

Luckily because any time you are held at gunpoint by the police who have gotten a call of someone waving a gun around things can go sideways.

9/10 times*

 

[wtburnette]

If I OC and the cops are called, I'll comply with the orders from the police and don't fear getting shot. I don't live in Minnesota you know...

 

[Hawkeye]

Luckily because any time you are held at gunpoint by the police who have gotten a call of someone waving a gun around things can go sideways.

there you go. Trying to interject rational thought into this thread. Folks here don;t want to hear it. THey know their rats!

 

[Vodnik4]

Education is one reason I Openly Carry.

I have helped many understand IC (Indiana Code), both sworn and unsworn civilians.

As one of those people educated on OC by a crotchety old guy, I want to thank you.

Back in my younger days, after growing up in a deep blue state and moving to a state with legal OC, I freaked out the first time I met a gentleman in a Chipotle with a very nice looking 1911 on his hip. Did not call the police, but went on the Internetz to check the law. The more people OC I saw, the less weird it was.

Forgive us former blue staters, we were just badly conditioned. Some of us are redeemable, I promise.

 

[2A_Tom]

Not everywhere is NW Indiana and metro areas (no matter what state) tend to have a different reaction from police to visibly armed people than rural areas. Especially when the original busy body caller made it sound like a mass shooting was about to kick off.

And I really hope the "I'm not in it for money like you" is not the same old tired passive aggressive thinly veiled insult that people try to use against professional firearms instructors who have spent their entire adult lives teaching people how to legally, morally, ethically, effectively and efficiently defend themselves from violent crime and collect a paycheck for their services just like a doctor, lawyer , preacher or carpenter would.

You are he one that brought up that you do not give it away free.

"As to education...I prefer to educate in a class environment not in Walmart or the gas station. Being an unpaid OC crusader generally has a lot of potential downside with little potential upside."

Again your opinion.

BTW I am an OC Advocate, not a crusader. I do not accost people, but when someone asks a question I am happy to talk to them. This happens often and I have not had a real negative interaction in years.

The one listed with the contractor in Hammond would be one of the worst.

The point is, do what you please and misinform your Johns as you will.