The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

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  • Mounty09

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    If you're not running ARP extended studs yet, I would recommend that you look into installing those. Have heard about studs snapping when wheel spacers are added to the mix. Not to mention the lack of thread engagement.
    Yeah I added some 3" Moroso studs. I'm not happy about the wheel spacers but it is what it is. I tried 5/16" first and that wasn't enough. These wheels are 6.5" back spacing and it seems like they should have been 6". But they only offer one option.
     

    jeffsqartan

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    Yeah I added some 3" Moroso studs. I'm not happy about the wheel spacers but it is what it is. I tried 5/16" first and that wasn't enough. These wheels are 6.5" back spacing and it seems like they should have been 6". But they only offer one option.
    I'm thinking about putting either a half inch or 3/4" spacer on mine. MM sells a 1/2" that is concentric but doesn't require to be bolted on.
    Debating on a set of wheels for when I finally get my coupe up and running. I love the wheels I have for the vert, but it doesn't look like they are making them anymore. Was looking at some stuff from Comsis and Yokohama the other night.
    Oh, and I found out that Federal is finally selling their 295 wide RS-RR tire and it's only $400 for two tires on Fleebay. Gonna have to order those in a month or two. My RE-71's had a chunk taken out of them and I'm afraid that NASA won't let me run on them now.
     

    thunderchicken

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    Yeah I added some 3" Moroso studs. I'm not happy about the wheel spacers but it is what it is. I tried 5/16" first and that wasn't enough. These wheels are 6.5" back spacing and it seems like they should have been 6". But they only offer one option.
    There's nothing wrong with running wheel spacers. Unfortunately often the needed backspacing just isn't available. We ran into that with the T-bird when we went to double beadlock wheels. We ended up having to put 1/2" spacers on to make the wheels fit. Even then it's a PITA to put the tires on and taking them off. Just make sure the hole in the spacers are properly sized (don't use the cheapo spacers with oval holes) and that your lug nuts are properly torqued. All-Star performance has some good quality spacers. We had to open up the holes to accept our 5/8 studs though.
    I see you went with ARP studs, hopefully you went with quality nuts too.
     

    Mounty09

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    Got out to Muncie April 26th for a TNT night. For how good the weather was, I was surprised there weren't more cars out. I was able to make 5 passes in an hour. I started the night with about 34.5 degrees of timing and was happy to make a new personal best of 12.30. The previous PB was a 12.43. I decided to up the launch RPM and add 1.5 degrees of timing. The next two passes were duds as I spun on one and forgot to release the two step button on the other. I need more practice. The 4th pass of the night I was really happy with, 12.10@112! Came back to the pits to pull some plugs to check timing. I decided to take a degree out. Another racer came over and started talking to me and then they called last round before prepping the track and starting trophy racing. I wanted to make one last pass and call it an evening. I rushed up to the lanes and made a pass. Car didn't seem like it was pulling very hard. The car lost 7 MPH and ran a 12.92. Put the car back on the trailer and went home. The next morning I was waking up and wondered if I had plugged the plug wire back in, checked it before I left for work and sure enough it the wire was sitting on the fender!

    Went to a shop Saturday to have some professionals do some tuning work on the ol foxbody. The car ran very well and we were pleased with the results. Did have two issues, a leaking radiator and a starter that needed activated with a hammer. I had thought the radiator was leaking from the lower hose so I double clamped it. Turns out it was leaking from where the tubes enter the tank. Sounds like Champion Radiator is going to warranty it out for me. After some testing with the starter, it seems like less than 12v is getting to the solenoid. I am going to install a button from a known 12v source to the solenoid. With the testing I have done, this seems to always activate the starter and it spins the motor over about 40 RPM faster.

    It took about 3 pulls to get the car dialed in NA. 301hp at 5840 RPM and 288ftlb at 4960 RPM. I believe the torque converter is causing a low reading on the TQ number. Next we decided we were going to start off spraying the 150hp (Nitrous Express #62 Jet) on 50% duty cycle. Made 2 pulls at 50% duty cycle and both of them picked up 126hp (426hp 402ftlb Total). Now was time for 100% duty cycle! The tuner started making the pull and let out early. When he shut the car off we asked what he was thinking. He said he let out as it got real rowdy real fast lol. Looked things over and checked plugs and everything looked good. It ended up making 195hp on the 150hp jet! Checked bottle pressure and it was at 1050 PSI. The previous 50% duty cycle we were only at 900 PSI. We decided to let the bottle cool down and get to 900 PSI for one last pull. That last pull dropped some HP. 481hp & 451ftlb.

    Overall I am very happy I took it to them. I feel much more confident with the car and spraying nitrous. The car also is starting much better hot and cold. I haven't gotten to drive it much because of the radiator but once that is fixed, I will take it out.

    The shop is FSi Racing in Claypool Indiana. They focus on LS work but will work on about anything. Check them out if you need any tuning or work done!

    First pull in this video is the 300hp pull and the second pull is the 481hp nitrous pull.


    This is the short 496hp pull where he let out. It seemed much rowdier in person but you can still tell with the nitrous kicks in.


    Fox Dyno.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    jeffsqartan

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    Got out to Muncie April 26th for a TNT night. For how good the weather was, I was surprised there weren't more cars out. I was able to make 5 passes in an hour. I started the night with about 34.5 degrees of timing and was happy to make a new personal best of 12.30. The previous PB was a 12.43. I decided to up the launch RPM and add 1.5 degrees of timing. The next two passes were duds as I spun on one and forgot to release the two step button on the other. I need more practice. The 4th pass of the night I was really happy with, 12.10@112! Came back to the pits to pull some plugs to check timing. I decided to take a degree out. Another racer came over and started talking to me and then they called last round before prepping the track and starting trophy racing. I wanted to make one last pass and call it an evening. I rushed up to the lanes and made a pass. Car didn't seem like it was pulling very hard. The car lost 7 MPH and ran a 12.92. Put the car back on the trailer and went home. The next morning I was waking up and wondered if I had plugged the plug wire back in, checked it before I left for work and sure enough it the wire was sitting on the fender!

    Went to a shop Saturday to have some professionals do some tuning work on the ol foxbody. The car ran very well and we were pleased with the results. Did have two issues, a leaking radiator and a starter that needed activated with a hammer. I had thought the radiator was leaking from the lower hose so I double clamped it. Turns out it was leaking from where the tubes enter the tank. Sounds like Champion Radiator is going to warranty it out for me. After some testing with the starter, it seems like less than 12v is getting to the solenoid. I am going to install a button from a known 12v source to the solenoid. With the testing I have done, this seems to always activate the starter and it spins the motor over about 40 RPM faster.

    It took about 3 pulls to get the car dialed in NA. 301hp at 5840 RPM and 288ftlb at 4960 RPM. I believe the torque converter is causing a low reading on the TQ number. Next we decided we were going to start off spraying the 150hp (Nitrous Express #62 Jet) on 50% duty cycle. Made 2 pulls at 50% duty cycle and both of them picked up 126hp (426hp 402ftlb Total). Now was time for 100% duty cycle! The tuner started making the pull and let out early. When he shut the car off we asked what he was thinking. He said he let out as it got real rowdy real fast lol. Looked things over and checked plugs and everything looked good. It ended up making 195hp on the 150hp jet! Checked bottle pressure and it was at 1050 PSI. The previous 50% duty cycle we were only at 900 PSI. We decided to let the bottle cool down and get to 900 PSI for one last pull. That last pull dropped some HP. 481hp & 451ftlb.

    Overall I am very happy I took it to them. I feel much more confident with the car and spraying nitrous. The car also is starting much better hot and cold. I haven't gotten to drive it much because of the radiator but once that is fixed, I will take it out.

    The shop is FSi Racing in Claypool Indiana. They focus on LS work but will work on about anything. Check them out if you need any tuning or work done!

    First pull in this video is the 300hp pull and the second pull is the 481hp nitrous pull.


    This is the short 496hp pull where he let out. It seemed much rowdier in person but you can still tell with the nitrous kicks in.


    View attachment 275159
    You're running a Holley setup on that, right? What intake are you using?

    I have been messing with the tune-up on my 92 302 lately. I have the factory ecu with a QuarterHorse and got what's called an A9L2 tune running from Decipha. It's based on a bone stock 302 like mine, so wasn't a whole lot to change. I think some timing changes are in order but I've been busy and unable to really drive it. Did get the 2-step working, though! The more I mess with this tune, the more I think I'm going to run a factory ECU when I build the boosted 85.
    There's also a nitrous controller built into this new tune. I need to fiddle with it more and figure out if I need larger injectors or if it can activate fuel AND nitrous solenoids. If I need new injectors, there's a high probability I just turbo the car instead lol.
     

    Mounty09

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    You're running a Holley setup on that, right? What intake are you using?

    I have been messing with the tune-up on my 92 302 lately. I have the factory ecu with a QuarterHorse and got what's called an A9L2 tune running from Decipha. It's based on a bone stock 302 like mine, so wasn't a whole lot to change. I think some timing changes are in order but I've been busy and unable to really drive it. Did get the 2-step working, though! The more I mess with this tune, the more I think I'm going to run a factory ECU when I build the boosted 85.
    There's also a nitrous controller built into this new tune. I need to fiddle with it more and figure out if I need larger injectors or if it can activate fuel AND nitrous solenoids. If I need new injectors, there's a high probability I just turbo the car instead lol.
    It is Terminator X Max. 351w EFI Super Vic. The nitrous is controlled by the terminator and it adds fuel through the injectors. With 1000cc injectors on a 150hp jet, I am only at 30% duty cycle of the injector. I will run out of fuel pump (340lph) before I run out of injector.
     

    jeffsqartan

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    It is Terminator X Max. 351w EFI Super Vic. The nitrous is controlled by the terminator and it adds fuel through the injectors. With 1000cc injectors on a 150hp jet, I am only at 30% duty cycle of the injector. I will run out of fuel pump (340lph) before I run out of injector.
    Yeah that's what I thought. I forgot that I plan on running a 4r70w like you and idk if I can use an A9P computer to control that.... Guess I'll have to look into some wiring there.
    Anyway, my thought with the injectors: if I have to buy injectors to run the nitrous, I might as well just buy injectors and a Pro-M blow-thru MAF and throw a small turbo on the car like I've always wanted. I'm sure I can do a wet-shot that's activated entirely outside of the ECU, which might be what I do instead.
     

    thunderchicken

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    Feb 26, 2010
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    Got out to Muncie April 26th for a TNT night. For how good the weather was, I was surprised there weren't more cars out. I was able to make 5 passes in an hour. I started the night with about 34.5 degrees of timing and was happy to make a new personal best of 12.30. The previous PB was a 12.43. I decided to up the launch RPM and add 1.5 degrees of timing. The next two passes were duds as I spun on one and forgot to release the two step button on the other. I need more practice. The 4th pass of the night I was really happy with, 12.10@112! Came back to the pits to pull some plugs to check timing. I decided to take a degree out. Another racer came over and started talking to me and then they called last round before prepping the track and starting trophy racing. I wanted to make one last pass and call it an evening. I rushed up to the lanes and made a pass. Car didn't seem like it was pulling very hard. The car lost 7 MPH and ran a 12.92. Put the car back on the trailer and went home. The next morning I was waking up and wondered if I had plugged the plug wire back in, checked it before I left for work and sure enough it the wire was sitting on the fender!

    Went to a shop Saturday to have some professionals do some tuning work on the ol foxbody. The car ran very well and we were pleased with the results. Did have two issues, a leaking radiator and a starter that needed activated with a hammer. I had thought the radiator was leaking from the lower hose so I double clamped it. Turns out it was leaking from where the tubes enter the tank. Sounds like Champion Radiator is going to warranty it out for me. After some testing with the starter, it seems like less than 12v is getting to the solenoid. I am going to install a button from a known 12v source to the solenoid. With the testing I have done, this seems to always activate the starter and it spins the motor over about 40 RPM faster.

    It took about 3 pulls to get the car dialed in NA. 301hp at 5840 RPM and 288ftlb at 4960 RPM. I believe the torque converter is causing a low reading on the TQ number. Next we decided we were going to start off spraying the 150hp (Nitrous Express #62 Jet) on 50% duty cycle. Made 2 pulls at 50% duty cycle and both of them picked up 126hp (426hp 402ftlb Total). Now was time for 100% duty cycle! The tuner started making the pull and let out early. When he shut the car off we asked what he was thinking. He said he let out as it got real rowdy real fast lol. Looked things over and checked plugs and everything looked good. It ended up making 195hp on the 150hp jet! Checked bottle pressure and it was at 1050 PSI. The previous 50% duty cycle we were only at 900 PSI. We decided to let the bottle cool down and get to 900 PSI for one last pull. That last pull dropped some HP. 481hp & 451ftlb.

    Overall I am very happy I took it to them. I feel much more confident with the car and spraying nitrous. The car also is starting much better hot and cold. I haven't gotten to drive it much because of the radiator but once that is fixed, I will take it out.

    The shop is FSi Racing in Claypool Indiana. They focus on LS work but will work on about anything. Check them out if you need any tuning or work done!

    First pull in this video is the 300hp pull and the second pull is the 481hp nitrous pull.


    This is the short 496hp pull where he let out. It seemed much rowdier in person but you can still tell with the nitrous kicks in.


    View attachment 275159

    When the manufacturer says this jet or jet combo is roughly a 150 shot it's usually pretty close. Not sure how much experience the folks who dyno tuned it really know about nitrous.
    So, you can take my advice however you'd like but I've played with the spray since 2004 and have learned from a couple of the best in the industry (Steve at Induction Solutions and Monte Smith but unfortunately he's no longer with us).
    Bottle pressure makes a big difference in how much is forced through the orifice on the jet. What many people don't know is that when the bottle pressure gets up over 950ish PSI, the liquid inside starts to boil and is unstable. That instability can cause some serious carnage. Engine usually don't last long with too much pressure (even specifically built for spray). You need to pick a pressure and stay consistent with it to get accurate reads on the plugs. Also as soon as you get turned off the track make mental note of where the bottle pressure is at. If there's a big drop through the run, that's a problem. Learn and know how many runs you can get out of a bottle. At some point you can have 950 PSI but not have enough liquid inside to maintain the pressure and then it can go over rich and lift ring lands and cause other problems. Been there
    With a nitrous engine, it can live or die based on how well you read your plugs. Get a good plug magnifier so you can see deep down at the base of the porcelain. I recommend one similar to what a doctor uses to look in your ears.

    Going to IRP tonight for T&T/ Wild Wednesday?
     

    Mounty09

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    When the manufacturer says this jet or jet combo is roughly a 150 shot it's usually pretty close. Not sure how much experience the folks who dyno tuned it really know about nitrous.
    So, you can take my advice however you'd like but I've played with the spray since 2004 and have learned from a couple of the best in the industry (Steve at Induction Solutions and Monte Smith but unfortunately he's no longer with us).
    Bottle pressure makes a big difference in how much is forced through the orifice on the jet. What many people don't know is that when the bottle pressure gets up over 950ish PSI, the liquid inside starts to boil and is unstable. That instability can cause some serious carnage. Engine usually don't last long with too much pressure (even specifically built for spray). You need to pick a pressure and stay consistent with it to get accurate reads on the plugs. Also as soon as you get turned off the track make mental note of where the bottle pressure is at. If there's a big drop through the run, that's a problem. Learn and know how many runs you can get out of a bottle. At some point you can have 950 PSI but not have enough liquid inside to maintain the pressure and then it can go over rich and lift ring lands and cause other problems. Been there
    With a nitrous engine, it can live or die based on how well you read your plugs. Get a good plug magnifier so you can see deep down at the base of the porcelain. I recommend one similar to what a doctor uses to look in your ears.

    Going to IRP tonight for T&T/ Wild Wednesday?
    I'm all for learning so thanks for your advise.

    I'm surprised what you say about bottle pressure. I know it can make a big difference but I have never heard about trying to stay less than 950psi. I've always heard 900-1100 psi is where you want to be. Heck the green section on the bottle pressure gauge is 900-1100. The plan will always be to run right at 900psi. Trying to do this all on a budget so not planning on buying a bottle pressure switch and will be keeping an eye on the gauge all the time.

    I do plan on having the bottle filled again before I take it to the track, that way I know how many passes I can make on a bottle. Honestly I don't plan on spraying very many times. But who knows, that might change.

    One great thing about having the Holley controlling the nitrous is lean and rich cutoffs. Currently lean cutoff is set to 12.8 and rich cutoff is 11.8

    I do need to get better at reading plugs.

    Didn't go to IRP. My new radiator doesn't get here until Monday. Have a few friends who are there and it looks packed. Hoping to make it to Muncie on the 24th. I might try and make a nitrous hit in "Mexico" before then.
     

    thunderchicken

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    I'm all for learning so thanks for your advise.

    I'm surprised what you say about bottle pressure. I know it can make a big difference but I have never heard about trying to stay less than 950psi. I've always heard 900-1100 psi is where you want to be. Heck the green section on the bottle pressure gauge is 900-1100. The plan will always be to run right at 900psi. Trying to do this all on a budget so not planning on buying a bottle pressure switch and will be keeping an eye on the gauge all the time.

    I do plan on having the bottle filled again before I take it to the track, that way I know how many passes I can make on a bottle. Honestly I don't plan on spraying very many times. But who knows, that might change.

    One great thing about having the Holley controlling the nitrous is lean and rich cutoffs. Currently lean cutoff is set to 12.8 and rich cutoff is 11.8

    I do need to get better at reading plugs.

    Didn't go to IRP. My new radiator doesn't get here until Monday. Have a few friends who are there and it looks packed. Hoping to make it to Muncie on the 24th. I might try and make a nitrous hit in "Mexico" before then.
    When we first started out with nitrous, we always kept the pressure right at 900. But then when we started going with bigger tunes we increased to 950 PSI and stayed there. If I were going into the finals and enough money was on the line, I'd probably bump the pressure up to about 975 but I would never go any higher than that. Heck, on really hot mid 90* summer days, when the bottles have gotten up in the 1100-1200 range we actually put them in an ice water bath to cool them down and lower the pressure. Another problem with high bottle pressure is the pressure that is being put on the solenoids. It's basically just a needle & seat that's opened and closed by the magnet field when the solenoids are activated. The seats in nitrous solenoids are kind of a Teflon so having high line pressure just sitting on them for any extended time can significantly reduce their life span, besides it makes the solenoids work harder to pull the needle off the seat against the pressure. It was highly recommended by Steve Johnson to put a ball valve in line so the bottle can be on in the lanes but then the driver can open the ball valve and purge the pressure down on the line without putting undue wear on those Teflon seats. Also a bigger more accurate guage to read line pressure Autometer has done well for us. Our bottles are all the same brand (Nitrous Pro Flow) and have the same valve style. But 2 of them have gauges that always read lower than the other 8 we have.

    With our big time up, we run 1 kit with 2 - 10lb bottles and had to swap out bottles after 2 runs. Otherwise they wouldn't have enough liquid volume to maintain the 950 PSI and it would fall on its face about half track.

    When we first started out, we had 2 kits and 2 bottles but we were able to get 3- 4 runs before we swapped bottles. Those were smaller more conservative tune ups lol.


    Oh btw that green section on the bottle guage is the safe zone for the bottle. They have a burst panel disk in the valve that's rated for 1300 (that's what ours are). Trust me you don't want to be near one if it blows off. Seen that on a pair that were in the bed of pick up at Edgewater years ago that baked in the sun. Was quite the fog show
     

    thunderchicken

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    Well we've had our engine out to get freshened up since fall. Finally got word that all the parts have finally come in and they will be getting it back in line for final assembly.
     

    Mounty09

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    Very good article.

    If I planned on running nitrous longer term, I would install a pressure sensor and have Holley log it. I will stick to 900psi for awhile. when the bottle was at 900psi it still made 180hp over na hp. I know there are alot of factors that play into that.
     

    thunderchicken

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    Very good article.

    If I planned on running nitrous longer term, I would install a pressure sensor and have Holley log it. I will stick to 900psi for awhile. when the bottle was at 900psi it still made 180hp over na hp. I know there are alot of factors that play into that.
    From a conservative stand point of needing the engine to live, that's definitely a good place to be.
     

    thunderchicken

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    @thunderchicken where do you have nitrous bottles filled? I have gone to RPM once and planning on going there in a bit to have it filled. Was hoping to find somewhere closer to Fishers/Noblesville.
    I have never been to RPM. I always take mine to Automotion race cars on Troy between Shelby and Madison. Been dealing with them for close to 20 years.
    I'm not sure if they still do it or not but some PepBoys stores used to fill bottles
     

    Mounty09

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    I have never been to RPM. I always take mine to Automotion race cars on Troy between Shelby and Madison. Been dealing with them for close to 20 years.
    I'm not sure if they still do it or not but some PepBoys stores used to fill bottles
    I was turned off by Automotion. I called to see about getting some tires mounted, I asked if it was something that could be done while I waited or if I needed to make an appointment. The guy on the phone said they would get to them when they get to them and he couldn't give me a timeline. Said they had two or three other sets to be done. If he would have told me it would take a week I would have been ok, but to just say they would get to them when they get to them... Pass. Took them to Hoosier in Brownsburg and they did them as I waited. They were also $2 more per lb on nitrous than RPM was. I've been to RPM twice now and other than the 40 minute drive, it has always been a great experience.
     

    thunderchicken

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    I was turned off by Automotion. I called to see about getting some tires mounted, I asked if it was something that could be done while I waited or if I needed to make an appointment. The guy on the phone said they would get to them when they get to them and he couldn't give me a timeline. Said they had two or three other sets to be done. If he would have told me it would take a week I would have been ok, but to just say they would get to them when they get to them... Pass. Took them to Hoosier in Brownsburg and they did them as I waited. They were also $2 more per lb on nitrous than RPM was. I've been to RPM twice now and other than the 40 minute drive, it has always been a great experience.
    Yeah Automotion really only has 2 employees and one is in a wheelchair. Brandon does all the nitrous refills, tires etc. He usually gets stuff done pretty darn quick but it really just hinges on how busy the store is and if he is needed on the counter. I've always been able to drop my bottles off (sometimes 6 at a time) and was able to pick them up the next day. But, the bottle has to be cool to fill so that is a factor too. Tires are usually the same way, drop off the old and a day or two later I go pick them up. Even though I can use the tire machines at work, I don't mind paying someone to mount them bigazz slicks and deal with the bead locks (or used to be rim screws).
    The owner is a fantastic guy but isn't there too much because he and his son run a chassis fabrication shop and do top notch work there.
    Really good people but Brandon can be sarcastic especially to people he doesn't know.
     

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