The Ethanol Lie

[Lpherr]

So, the depletion of the Ozone Layer, is actually just a cornhole?
Now the increasing temps make sense.

 

[Lpherr]

For lubrication, stabilization, cleaning, and protection, I use Hot Shot's Secret.
I haven't noticed the increase in claimed fuel mileage, but everything runs much better using it.
Even the weed whacker. I ran ethanol in the last one without any additive, and it lasted one year. This one is going on 3 years with no problems.

 

[wagyu52]

Sure would be nice to be able to purchase 100% gasoline for all of our vehicles, road or off road!

Ban ethanol!

Prohibition. Yeah lets bring back the 18th amendment.

 

[wagyu52]

https://environmentalhistory.org/people/henry-ford-charles-kettering-and-the-fuel-of-the-future/

 

[Tombs]

The problem is that gas and ethanol enjoy the massive advantage of being liquid at room temperature and one atmosphere. You can pour it from a can, pump it easily, store it in a non pressure vessel, fill it from an old beat up pump spout that doesn't need to seal. The energy density is incredible and handling is safe and easy.

Liquid hydrogen is far too cold for automotive use. Gaseous hydrogen is the hardest element in the physical universe to store in a tank. Propane and NG aren't much better. How do you find a leak? Design a filling station fitting that can last hundreds of thousands of uses while sitting exposed in the elements for years? Gaseous fuels have huge practical problems.

The bigger problem with ethanol IMO is the absolute irresponsible rape of vital farmland that we need to feed people. Depleting the soil to grow plants to burn in cars is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

Propane is frequently used in cars in different countries.

Apparently other countries can solve the fitting problem.

 

[Tombs]

are there any side effects of running 100% gas in a vehicle that has lived on 90% gas?

Besides running better and likely cleaning out a lot of fouling? No.

 

[Tombs]

Just a question, do you think that ground will grow anything without all the fertilizers and pesticides?

There's another nightmare situation that is rarely if ever discussed.

Peak phosphor. Good luck having any industrial agriculture without phosphorus.

 

[wagyu52]

There's another nightmare situation that is rarely if ever discussed.

Peak phosphor. Good luck having any industrial agriculture without phosphorus.

It’s actually discussed quite often. Ever heard of Gabe Brown? Regenerative Agriculture?

 

[Pepi]

It's fun being a pawn.

More like peasants. I'm beginning to feel like those immigrants on 1883. BUT, I own weapons

 

[71silverbullet]

I had to replace one and rebuild another carb on my lawn equipment from the crap ass fuel they are shoving up our tail pipes.
The chain saw (new carb and tune up last summer) will not run either. Hit it with starter fluid and it pops right off until it burns all the fluid. Prime indicator the carb is in need of attention. It's a lot of happy horse in my book.

For use in your lawn equipment, ethanol is EXTREMELY easy to remove from gasoline. It's easy to remove for any use but, removing in large amounts would require more space and larger containers.
It's really a simple as just adding water to the gas(seriously). There are many videos on this.

 

[Pepi]

I like this idea of removing the ethanol. The only thing I wonder about is the octane level will go down by doing this. I think using 93 octane would be the best grade to use

 

[Ingomike]

I like this idea of removing the ethanol. The only thing I wonder about is the octane level will go down by doing this. I think using 93 octane would be the best grade to use

I believe that the ethanol is high octane and the underlying gas is 3 octane less.

 

[wagyu52]

Ethanol as an Octane Booster​

In addition to having lower lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions than conventional gasoline, ethanol is an excellent octane provider, with neat (pure) ethanol having an octane rating of over 100. Currently, refiners create ‘sub-octane gas,’ which has a lower octane rating than required. Ethanol, which is generally the cheapest octane provider, is then used to bring the octane rating of the gasoline up to the labelled octane value on the gas pump. For example, 84 octane gasoline is typically blended with 10 percent ethanol to reach the minimum octane requirement of 87 for retail gasoline.

Fact Sheet | A Brief History of Octane in Gasoline: From Lead to Ethanol | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

 

[Cameramonkey]

Ethanol as an Octane Booster​

In addition to having lower lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions than conventional gasoline, ethanol is an excellent octane provider, with neat (pure) ethanol having an octane rating of over 100. Currently, refiners create ‘sub-octane gas,’ which has a lower octane rating than required. Ethanol, which is generally the cheapest octane provider, is then used to bring the octane rating of the gasoline up to the labelled octane value on the gas pump. For example, 84 octane gasoline is typically blended with 10 percent ethanol to reach the minimum octane requirement of 87 for retail gasoline.

Fact Sheet | A Brief History of Octane in Gasoline: From Lead to Ethanol | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

Seems counterintuitive. Because E85 (85% ethanol) has more ethanol than regular 87 octane (E10), yet cars burning it get lower gas mileage. You'd think that if Ethanol has higher octane it would be more efficient at generating energy.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Seems counterintuitive. Because E85 (85% ethanol) has more ethanol than regular 87 octane (E10), yet cars burning it get lower gas mileage. You'd think that if Ethanol has higher octane it would be more efficient at generating energy.

You can get serious HP out of a properly tuned/built motor with E85, but you will burn more of it than gas to get the same HP. Octane rating isn't the amount of energy that is contained in the gas. Alcohol has less energy per gallon than gasoline.

 

[Old Dog]

I heard someone say that the way things are going, one day everything will run on hopes and dreams.

Or Rainbows and Unicorn farts!

 

[manifest destiny]

I thought adding ethanol to gas started as a (indirect) farmer's benefit program in the 80's.

 

[bwframe]

I thought adding ethanol to gas started as a (indirect) farmer's benefit program in the 80's.

According to the libs (Lugar) it was.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Seems counterintuitive. Because E85 (85% ethanol) has more ethanol than regular 87 octane (E10), yet cars burning it get lower gas mileage. You'd think that if Ethanol has higher octane it would be more efficient at generating energy.

Using higher octane fuel doesn't produce more power. Octane is simply the rating of how much compression it can take before igniting. Therefore if you have a high compression engine you need a higher octane gas so that it doesn't ignite prematurely.

 

[wagyu52]

I thought adding ethanol to gas started as a (indirect) farmer's benefit program in the 80's.

Ethanol is an energy product and not part of agriculture far as subsidies is concerned.

​

Timeline of Ethanol Phase-In​

1975: Congress passes the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPAct), establishing Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards for cars and trucks.

1988: The Alternative Motor Fuels Act establishes incentives under CAFE for alternative fuel vehicles.

1992: The Energy Policy Act of 1992 defines alternative fuels and establishes programs at the federal level to increase the use and research of alternative fuels.

2005: Congress passes the Energy Policy Act of 2005, establishing the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS). RFS sets a minimum volume of renewable biofuels to be blended into the transportation fuel supply.

2007: Congress passes the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA), significantly increasing the volume of renewable fuels mandated under the RFS, to 36 billion gallons by 2022.

2013: Citing a lack of renewable fuels infrastructure, EPA proposes reducing the volume of renewable fuels under the RFS.

2015: The Administration sets renewable fuel volumes for 2014 – 2016. Final renewable fuel volumes for 2016 are 18.11 billion gallons, set at approximately 1 billion gallons higher than the 2013 proposal, and at just over 10 percent of the fuel supply. This includes the categories of renewable fuels, cellulosic biofuels, advanced biofuels and biomass-based diesel.