The case for the 1911

DadSmith

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Point nine, accuracy - No cops shoot well enough for this to matter. But they do need capacity...which the 1911 offers at *half* or less of modern 9mms.

"With LAC shootings involving only one officer, an average of 3.59 police rounds were fired. When 2 officers got involved, the average jumped to 4.98 rounds and with 3 officers or more to 6.48. "The number of rounds fired per officer increases in multiple-officer shootings by as much as 45 percent over single-officer shootings," Aveni says."

According to this research under 4 rds are fired avg by 1 officer involved shooting. Approximately 5 rds fired with two officers, and less than 7 rds when three officers are involved. I do believe a 1911 45acp can carry 9rds 8+1. That According to research is plenty. Over 2x the capacity needed per officer.
 

texas123

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Seems what we are seeing is a natural progression. Cost is a factor in both equipment and training. Law enforcement agencies now more than ever seem to be operating on a smaller budget, if any. In the hands of a seasoned and well trained individual the 1911 platform is pretty hard to beat. Every firearm has it pros and cons. Those who do not practice and hone their skills will never will never reach proficiency with it. No matter the make, model, or caliber they choose.
 

BigRed

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According to this research under 4 rds are fired avg by 1 officer involved shooting. Approximately 5 rds fired with two officers, and less than 7 rds when three officers are involved. I do believe a 1911 45acp can carry 9rds 8+1. That According to research is plenty. Over 2x the capacity needed per officer.

There are a couple of officers in NYC I would not want to be around when they had "extra rounds".




IMG_0593.JPG
 

DadSmith

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Seems what we are seeing is a natural progression. Cost is a factor in both equipment and training. Law enforcement agencies now more than ever seem to be operating on a smaller budget, if any. In the hands of a seasoned and well trained individual the 1911 platform is pretty hard to beat. Every firearm has it pros and cons. Those who do not practice and hone their skills will never will never reach proficiency with it. No matter the make, model, or caliber they choose.

Yep I believe it is the #1 factor.

"The most commonly cited reason for this is that Glock offers huge discounts to law enforcement departments, many of which are forced to go with whatever is cheapest due to budget constraints."

When it comes to the government it's the lowest bidder that gets the contracts. Unless corruption is involved.
 

gregr

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Yep I believe it is the #1 factor.

"The most commonly cited reason for this is that Glock offers huge discounts to law enforcement departments, many of which are forced to go with whatever is cheapest due to budget constraints."

When it comes to the government it's the lowest bidder that gets the contracts. Unless corruption is involved.
Do you believe that reliability and ease of use factor in at all?
 

jbombelli

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"With LAC shootings involving only one officer, an average of 3.59 police rounds were fired. When 2 officers got involved, the average jumped to 4.98 rounds and with 3 officers or more to 6.48. "The number of rounds fired per officer increases in multiple-officer shootings by as much as 45 percent over single-officer shootings," Aveni says."

According to this research under 4 rds are fired avg by 1 officer involved shooting. Approximately 5 rds fired with two officers, and less than 7 rds when three officers are involved. I do believe a 1911 45acp can carry 9rds 8+1. That According to research is plenty. Over 2x the capacity needed per officer.
 

Leo

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There is something to be said about materials that do not require a constant layer of oil or wax to resist rust when working outdoors. That is part of why when Peace officers were issued revolvers, carry ammo was almost always nickle cases. Raw brass in a leather looped belt got corroded pretty fast on beat in states that have four distinct seasons.

Ammo in plastic magazines carried in plastic handle pistols is a lot less likely to start corroding.
 

Trapper Jim

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I have to agree that to outfit the thousands of shooters that make up a military or police unit, the Stock Service Pistol in the easy to shoot and large payload of rounds is king. But for those dedicated to mastering their craft…1911 or Revolver it is…
 

gregr

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So you think they buy Glocks for reasons other than price? If Glock started charging then $550-$600 a gun they would buy from Springfield, Smith and Wesson, Sig, or any company that will cut them a deal. Same reason they use for their cars.... who will give them the cheapest deal.
Oh, I meant nothing by my comment.
 

flatlander

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I find it amazing that the thousands, or millions, of knuckle dragging Neanderthals that carried a 1911 for many many years, many ever used it successfully considering what a P.O.S it was. I suppose it was just a bunch of damn miracles.
Training is key to having and using ANY weapon and I'm afraid many refuse to commit to it and instead follow the herd.
:twocents:
 

DadSmith

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I find it amazing that the thousands, or millions, of knuckle dragging Neanderthals that carried a 1911 for many many years, many ever used it successfully considering what a P.O.S it was. I suppose it was just a bunch of damn miracles.
Training is key to having and using ANY weapon and I'm afraid many refuse to commit to it and instead follow the herd.
:twocents:
Problem is police departments Probably don't have the funds for a lot of extra training. That is where we the taxpayers fail the law enforcement communities. We gripe about taxes and want better police yet they cannot get better without better training. Training cost money that comes from our taxes. Now we have defund the police they have less in some cities. How can we require our officers to do a better job without better training, and I'm not talking police academy I'm talking about afterwards.
 

BigRed

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Yep I believe it is the #1 factor.

"The most commonly cited reason for this is that Glock offers huge discounts to law enforcement departments, many of which are forced to go with whatever is cheapest due to budget constraints."

When it comes to the government it's the lowest bidder that gets the contracts. Unless corruption is involved.


If only Hi-Point had a market strategy....then they would be widely considered as good firearms.
 

DadSmith

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If only Hi-Point had a market strategy....then they would be widely considered as good firearms.
I do believe there are certain criteria that needs to be satisfied. No reason to jump to the lowest level. I would hope you understood that.


"Despite its appearance, the Hi-Point carbine was developed for the civilian market and not specifically aimed at police department use. Nevertheless, it has been approved and purchased by a small number of local police departments that cannot easily afford to outfit all of their officers with more expensive long guns."

If things go down hill fast Hi-Point might be the new go to firearm for law enforcement.
 
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Ark

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"With LAC shootings involving only one officer, an average of 3.59 police rounds were fired. When 2 officers got involved, the average jumped to 4.98 rounds and with 3 officers or more to 6.48. "The number of rounds fired per officer increases in multiple-officer shootings by as much as 45 percent over single-officer shootings," Aveni says."

According to this research under 4 rds are fired avg by 1 officer involved shooting. Approximately 5 rds fired with two officers, and less than 7 rds when three officers are involved. I do believe a 1911 45acp can carry 9rds 8+1. That According to research is plenty. Over 2x the capacity needed per officer.
Most police officers never fire a single round in anger in their career. Statistically, we should take guns away from all of them because they probably won't need guns?
 

DadSmith

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Most police officers never fire a single round in anger in their career. Statistically, we should take guns away from all of them because they probably won't need guns?
So now we go from 1911, Glock, Springfield, Sig, and S&W to being totally disarmed.

The statistics are to show that the majority of shootings never get past 7 rds. Now how often are police in a shootout like the North Hollywood shootout statistically?
 
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