Target Permit, what is this?

[Kirk Freeman]

In 2008, there was an exception to the licensed required to transport handguns law that provided for it to be taken from the place of purchase to their dwelling or place of business, and then between dwellings if a person moved as long as it was in a "secure wrapper" and unloaded.

Notice I specified "handguns".

[ETA]

I would add that not knowing how restrictive things used to be, even not that long ago- and yes, even then Indiana was one of the less restrictive states (not good, but better than most others), goes along with the notion that "gun laws are worse now than ever" which was a routine thing to hear, at least before Constitutional Carry. The truth is that in Indiana and a lot of other places, there has been 30 to 40 years of steady progress on firearms freedom, even without good Supreme Court decisions.

It is akin to the "George Booshhhh" ain't did nothing for meye ryeets posts. People are unaware of what was transpiring.

Because it was gradual people both did not know how bad things were, and how good things are now.

Politics is downstream of culture. Carrying guns become more socially/culturally acceptable, thus the law changed.

 

[Cameramonkey]

In 2008, there was an exception to the licensed required to transport handguns law that provided for it to be taken from the place of purchase to their dwelling or place of business, and then between dwellings if a person moved as long as it was in a "secure wrapper" and unloaded.

Notice I specified "handguns".

[ETA]

I would add that not knowing how restrictive things used to be, even not that long ago- and yes, even then Indiana was one of the less restrictive states (not good, but better than most others), goes along with the notion that "gun laws are worse now than ever" which was a routine thing to hear, at least before Constitutional Carry. The truth is that in Indiana and a lot of other places, there has been 30 to 40 years of steady progress on firearms freedom, even without good Supreme Court decisions.

thanks

 

[schmart]

Pretty sure you didnt. You could always transport a firearm to and from different locations provided it was unloaded and inaccessible to you.

If a permit was required, then you couldnt buy a handgun without a LTCH because it would be illegal to take it home.

Since when did laws make any sense?

Link to the statute as it existed in 2010.

2010 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE :: :: ARTICLE 47. WEAPONS AND INSTRUMENTS OF VIOLENCE :: :: CHAPTER 2. REGULATION OF HANDGUNS

law.justia.com

I remember it clearly from when I escaped Illinois and researched the requirements in the 2007 timeframe. Got my LTCH shortly after beginning a proper Indiana citizen.
Rick

 

[xwing]

I remember that law 35-47-2-2 (11). It was changed effective 7/1/2011 per Senate Bill 506. Before that law change, it was illegal to take your unloaded and locked handgun to a range to go target shooting unless you had a LTCH.

 

[ditcherman]

thanks

Nanny nanny boo boo told you so.

 

[ditcherman]

In 2008, there was an exception to the licensed required to transport handguns law that provided for it to be taken from the place of purchase to their dwelling or place of business, and then between dwellings if a person moved as long as it was in a "secure wrapper" and unloaded.

Notice I specified "handguns".

[ETA]

I would add that not knowing how restrictive things used to be, even not that long ago- and yes, even then Indiana was one of the less restrictive states (not good, but better than most others), goes along with the notion that "gun laws are worse now than ever" which was a routine thing to hear, at least before Constitutional Carry. The truth is that in Indiana and a lot of other places, there has been 30 to 40 years of steady progress on firearms freedom, even without good Supreme Court decisions.

Thanks for that, but I thought if the sky was not falling we were doing it wrong!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

In the 2008 timeframe, you were required to have a permit to transport a firearm to the range. Caused me to get my lifetime carry permit. Shortly thereafter, that requirement was dropped, but still needed a permit to carry (open or concealed). Since July 1, no permits are required.
Rick

Same reason I got mine.

Good to hear you say that, upthread it seemed you were defending the permit process as a good thing, a “bright line”, IIRC. Of course, everyone is allowed to change their mind. And maybe you were just advocating for following the law as written, not sure.

As a recent (2010 ish?) handgun owner I’m still shocked that I didn’t know how restrictive Indiana’s laws were. I feel like as I read through all that there is a lot of compromise and apology for the way Indiana’s laws were compared to others.

You don’t know what you don’t know.

"A bright line" in legal speech is simply a yes/no, if/then, statement of fact, etc that even Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder could see it. In Schubert v. DeBard there was a bright line that "self defense" was a "proper reason" for obtaining a LTCH. It changed IN from a may issue state to a shall issue state.

When I went into the local cop shop to apply, the receptionist/clerk/secretary/etc (small department) filled it out for me. When it came to the proper reason question she just asked "Self defense, right?" After she was almost done writing it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Same reason I got mine.


"A bright line" in legal speech is simply a yes/no, if/then, statement of fact, etc that even Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder could see it. In Schubert v. DeBard there was a bright line that "self defense" was a "proper reason" for obtaining a LTCH. It changed IN from a may issue state to a shall issue state.

When I went into the local cop shop to apply, the receptionist/clerk/secretary/etc (small department) filled it out for me. When it came to the proper reason question she just asked "Self defense, right?" After she was almost done writing it.

Reminds me of the Shenanigans that Sherriff Frank Anderson pulled. For all Marion county apps his staff would take a sharpie and cross out the last part of the instructions: "Application must be typed or written legibly in ink." And they would staple a replacement set of Marion County specific instructions to the back of the multipart application. And this is when computers were starting to take off, and it was getting harder and harder to find a typewriter. I had to use one in the office where I was doing security because I didnt have one. Or somebody would have to go to a library to find one. I guess he wanted to put up barriers to make it as hard as possible to apply. I guess if they werent smart/resourceful enough to know how/where to use a typewriter, they werent worthy enough to get a LTCH.

I politely complained one day at the state police office while filing a change of address. "Oh, honey, its not us. Its ONLY Marion County. *holds up a stack of apps* None of these are typed and we are fine with them."

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Reminds me of the Shenanigans that Sherriff Frank Anderson pulled. For all Marion county apps his staff would take a sharpie and cross out the last part of the instructions: "Application must be typed or written legibly in ink." And they would staple a replacement set of Marion County specific instructions to the back of the multipart application. And this is when computers were starting to take off, and it was getting harder and harder to find a typewriter. I had to use one in the office where I was doing security because I didnt have one. Or somebody would have to go to a library to find one. I guess he wanted to put up barriers to make it as hard as possible to apply. I guess if they werent smart/resourceful enough to know how/where to use a typewriter, they werent worthy enough to get a LTCH.

I politely complained one day at the state police office while filing a change of address. "Oh, honey, its not us. Its ONLY Marion County. *holds up a stack of apps* None of these are typed and we are fine with them."

In Gary for a while they just didn't hand out applications, the only place you could get one if you were a resident of Gary was the police station and the PD was always "out" of them. They got smacked pretty good for that.

But in my town it wasn't shenanigans, it was simply how they did it. You had to go in any time during normal business hours and fill it out. If you couldn't make it during normal business hours give them a call and they'll schedule you in when you can make it. This was before and shortly after they started doing digital prints and online apps. Heck you still have to visit your local P.D/Sheriff to complete your application I believe. The secretary/receptionist/everything had very neat legible printing it almost looked typed, not everyone does. Mine unfortunately looks like chicken scratch. It took no longer than if I could have filled it out at home, actually saved me total time. When I got there to apply she had to put a call out for someone to come in and print me. They got there maybe 5 minutes at the most after all the paperwork was done. And the paperwork took longer than 5 minutes. And she filled it out faster than I could have.

DeBard corrected a serious problem, before it worked like NY/CA/HI/etc. where it was up the the local P.D./Sheriff to determine if you had a proper cause and/or of good moral character.

 

[indyartisan]

DeBard corrected a serious problem, before it worked like NY/CA/HI/etc. where it was up the the local P.D./Sheriff to determine if you had a proper cause and/or of good moral character.

Bob Debard was a treasure .
Eagle Scout ,
Kentucky Colonel,
Sagamore of the Wabash.
I did several jobs at his home.
He would tell me let’s go get lunch and have me drive him in his Lincoln down to the pancake house in fishers.
He was in his eighties at the time and wasn’t supposed to drive or have pancakes or syrup but I just thought I hope someone would do the same for me someday.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

In the 2008 timeframe, you were required to have a permit to transport a firearm to the range. Caused me to get my lifetime carry permit. Shortly thereafter, that requirement was dropped, but still needed a permit to carry (open or concealed). Since July 1, no permits are required.
Rick

Same reason I got mine..

Every time I am asked to speak about gun laws, most, if not all, of the questions are directed toward how to get around paying $25 every four years (or now the lifetime license). I am continually amazed at the legal yoga people will go through not to pay $25 when every time they go to the range they burn $100 in ammo.

"If I have my brother's dog carry the gun and then . . ." NO, GET THE LICENSE.

"Well, I'm only going to the range and my cousin Jimmy Joe Cledus Lee is the Town Marshall of Gnawbone and he says . . ." NO, GET THE LICENSE.

"Well, my Uncle Jasper's been a-carryin' for 76 years and he's never had a . . ." NO, GET THE LICENSE.

"Well, in Tinuhsee, we all carry to the range and don't need no license, or shoes." NO, GET THE LICENSE. This isn't down Souf/back home/where I lived 3 states ago.

GET THE LICENSE. It is cheap insurance against being arrested for a misdemeanor.

GET THE LICENSE. It is the law. "But I don't like your Yankeefied law." Then help us change it. Rex Early back in '96 pledged to abolish the LTCH. We need your help to help elect those who would defend our rights. We've made progress, we need to make more progress.

GET THE LICENSE. Not only should you have a license, everyone 18 and over should have one as it will prevent any unneeded LE attention from a pistol left in the glove box.

Welcome to Indiana, mill. Now . . . go get your license.

That's actually what brought me to INGO. Not to get out of paying for it, but to get to the range while waiting on it. My two thoughts were A)Talk to a gunshop with a range about how much it would cost for them to assemble a pistol that I "couldn't figure out" how to reassemble after field stripping for cleaning. B)have my son "transport it" IIRC there was an exception under the children with firearms section that allowed them to transport handguns if it was for training purposes.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Bob Debard was a treasure .
Eagle Scout ,
Kentucky Colonel,
Sagamore of the Wabash.
I did several jobs at his home.
He would tell me let’s go get lunch and have me drive him in his Lincoln down to the pancake house in fishers.
He was in his eighties at the time and wasn’t supposed to drive or have pancakes or syrup but I just thought I hope someone would do the same for me someday.

DeBard was the one that denied the LTCH on the basis of self protection, Schubert is the one that sued. It may be a different DeBard, this court case was in 1980.

Schubert v. DeBard

Schubert v. DeBard - 398 N.E.2d 1339

law.justia.com

 

[indyartisan]

DeBard was the one that denied the LTCH on the basis of self protection, Schubert is the one that sued. It may be a different DeBard, this court case was in 1980.

Schubert v. DeBard

Schubert v. DeBard - 398 N.E.2d 1339

law.justia.com

No it’s the right DeBard
First I have heard of the case that set him straight .
You should buy me a cheeseburger for contributing to his demise I guess.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

No it’s the right DeBard
First I have heard of the case that set him straight .
You should buy me a cheeseburger for contributing to his demise I guess.

Nah, I didn't wish death upon him. Heck he may have actually been right to deny but did it for the wrong reason. The court opinion even stated that. Heck if he was still alive, I might just buy him a burger, or some pancakes with syrup. And not to help contribute to his demise.

We recognize, however, that there was conflicting evidence on Schubert's suitability to be licensed and that those issues were not attempted to be resolved in the original determination.

But if we ever run into each other I'll buy and/or make you a cheeseburger.

 

[indyartisan]

DeBard was the one that denied the LTCH on the basis of self protection, Schubert is the one that sued. It may be a different DeBard, this court case was in 1980.

Schubert v. DeBard

Schubert v. DeBard - 398 N.E.2d 1339

law.justia.com

This does shed some light on my first handgun permit ,
Yes they were called permits back then.
I had a secretary type the answers to the application queries in the boxes as requested at the time.
I guess there was one left out or something .
The clerk handed it back to me and I flipped the form over and hand wrote personal protection on the back.
The permit was issued.
Must have been 1980 or 81.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This does shed some light on my first handgun permit ,
Yes they were called permits back then.
I had a secretary type the answers to the application queries in the boxes as requested at the time.
I guess there was one left out or something .
The clerk handed it back to me and I flipped the form over and hand wrote personal protection on the back.
The permit was issued.
Must have been 1980 or 81.

Mine was issued a good while after that. But pretty much the same process. Up to a couple of years ago you could still do it that way, now it has to be online with digital prints. The local trip for me wouldn't be bad, I walked when I did mine. Where I would have to go to get digital prints now is at least a 30-35 minute drive with minimal/no traffic each way. We did have one in town for a short while, they set up at the local hotel for something like 2 hrs once a week or every other week.