Tactics for stopping an active shooter.

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  • Dean C.

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    This is why I started focusing on accuracy at distance after the West Freeway Church of Christ shooting in 2019 when Jack Wilson dropped that scumbag with a headshot from 15 yards~.

    For the record I saw the video the people in front of the store had essentially zero chance to survive realistically the psycho was even anchoring people. The people inside the store had maybe 12 seconds to react from the time the first shots went off.

    Another important reminder to shoot untill the threat is down and not just after an arbitrary 1 or 2 rounds. If I need more ammo there is another 12 in my pocket ready to go.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    The game to play for this is NRA Precision Pistol. It will hone your skills to shoot 4 inch or better groups at 50 yard strong handed targets. If you don’t commit to achieving this, you might wanna give up the hero fantasy with a pistol and go to a long arm…oh wait, many have already.

    The tragedy at Topps, or any AS situation is terrible and my prayers are for the victims and family of these atrocities. Since I know that the bulk of gun owners will not train religiously to Master their skill set, with shooting, social skills or situational awareness, then I can hope that ALL the eyes of the public start paying attention to the behavior of these evil people BEFORE the first shot is fired.

    Where did he park? How many times did he circle the lot? How long of walk was he exposed before raising the gun? The public needs to be less introverted and quit being a social stillborn and get their nose out of their phone so we can enhance the number of “security guards” everywhere. Stores can’t financially hire the thousands of alert security people to stop this so we the people need to do better at real observation. Good people will say something and real heroes do something.

    So trying to armchair the fantasy of what gun should I use for this application is a waste of time as the odds of you being dressed right for the show are harder to play than opening your eyeballs to your surroundings.

    Train Hard. See Hard. Act Hard.

    See you on the range.

    Trapper
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    ALL the eyes of the public start paying attention to the behavior of these evil people BEFORE the first shot is fired.

    Where did he park? How many times did he circle the lot? How long of walk was he exposed before raising the gun? The public needs to be less introverted and quit being a social stillborn and get their nose out of their phone so we can enhance the number of “security guards” everywhere. Stores can’t financially hire the thousands of alert security people to stop this so we the people need to do better at real observation. Good people will say something and real heroes do something.
    From the bit of video I saw, it looked like he circled the lot maybe once, parked directly in front of the store, as for how far did he walk maybe two steps if that. He put the car in park, opened the door, got out and started shooting.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    So if the dude that just dropped off his wife to get groceries knew what to look for he could’ve rammed his car up his arse before the muzzle came up? Maybe…maybe not.
    Highly doubt it, action beats reaction. The guy dropping his wife off would have had to have seen him getting out with the rifle and raising it to point at the person. Or do you think someone should ram someone for just getting out of a car with a rifle? Even if that was the case, they would have been way far behind in the OODA loop. The first couple of people had no chance.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Highly doubt it, action beats reaction. The guy dropping his wife off would have had to have seen him getting out with the rifle and raising it to point at the person. Or do you think someone should ram someone for just getting out of a car with a rifle? Even if that was the case, they would have been way far behind in the OODA loop. The first couple of people had no chance.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    I agree if one has not the awareness, timing or experience of acting in the seconds that it takes, by all means they should give up run and hide. However out of place is key. If the timing works and a hollow eyed misfit dressed to draw fire gets out of his rusty Datsun the OODA loop has a very short process window. Many take too long probably out of caution.

    Could be he is just wanting to ring the bell for the Salvation Armory but a go no go choice may be necessary depending on assessment and timing. LE deals with this every day but unfortunately there is not enough of them to go around.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    I agree if one has not the awareness, timing or experience of acting in the seconds that it takes, by all means they should give up run and hide. However out of place is key. If the timing works and a hollow eyed misfit dressed to draw fire gets out of his rusty Datsun the OODA loop has a very short process window. Many take too long probably out of caution.

    Could be he is just wanting to ring the bell for the Salvation Armory but a go no go choice may be necessary depending on assessment and timing. LE deals with this every day but unfortunately there is not enough of them to go around.
    Yeah, someone that can spot someone getting out of the car processes the info and draw and fire in a second total max, they are a better man than me. It wasn't seconds after he got out of the car to the first person being down. From the time he opened his door to 1st shot which was on target was maybe a second. If Jerry Miculek was his first target, I don't think even he would have had a chance.

    Could be a salvation army bell ringer, or a guy going to shop. There is a IMPD officer (I think that is their department anyway) who commented not that long ago about them getting a call about a guy with a rifle in a store. He was gone when they got there, he was just shopping.
     

    wcd

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    This is why I started focusing on accuracy at distance after the West Freeway Church of Christ shooting in 2019 when Jack Wilson dropped that scumbag with a headshot from 15 yards~.

    For the record I saw the video the people in front of the store had essentially zero chance to survive realistically the psycho was even anchoring people. The people inside the store had maybe 12 seconds to react from the time the first shots went off.

    Another important reminder to shoot untill the threat is down and not just after an arbitrary 1 or 2 rounds. If I need more ammo there is another 12 in my pocket ready to go.
    Exactly there is a lot to be said for trading with the best tool possible and being proficient with it. Situational awareness and an understanding that the rule of 3‘s may be totally irrelevant to situations of late. Another good reason to make a wise choice for your sidearm.
     

    Brad69

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    Like TJ mentioned OODA loop (used to be a Leo on INGO that taught a great class on it).

    If you are not keyed up already it’s hard to go from 0 to kill in a second.

    If you have never experienced a near death incident. It can be very surreal and things like time and hearing are effected.

    The normal person is not programmed to respond with violence as a first resort. This may slow the OODA loop.

    Handgun vs AR/AK/shotgun + body armor.

    Your gonna have to be lucky and good or your gonna die. The common carry is a compact or sub compact. Very few of INGO peeps are sporting a hand cannon in the summer.

    God bless you if you have the frame of mind to get a head or pelvic shot. When someone is actually trying to kill you.

    Good luck
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Like TJ mentioned OODA loop (used to be a Leo on INGO that taught a great class on it).

    If you are not keyed up already it’s hard to go from 0 to kill in a second.

    If you have never experienced a near death incident. It can be very surreal and things like time and hearing are effected.

    The normal person is not programmed to respond with violence as a first resort. This may slow the OODA loop.

    Handgun vs AR/AK/shotgun + body armor.

    Your gonna have to be lucky and good or your gonna die. The common carry is a compact or sub compact. Very few of INGO peeps are sporting a hand cannon in the summer.

    God bless you if you have the frame of mind to get a head or pelvic shot. When someone is actually trying to kill you.

    Good luck
    It is not always a matter of handgun vs Ar/AK. It’s more of a matter of a courage, conditioning and processing speed that can be the end game for the maniac. A car, a friend that draws attention as the shooter can only muzzle in one direction at a time, (wolves do this), total knowledge of his weapon and mags, getting on his backside with a knife, ball bat or just break his neck. It should start with the very first citizen to witness a camo creep lurching around with a long gun and evil in his eyes. If I act too soon and end up neutralizing a choir boy, still better than children being destroyed. Just my thoughts.
     

    wcd

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    Like TJ mentioned OODA loop (used to be a Leo on INGO that taught a great class on it).

    If you are not keyed up already it’s hard to go from 0 to kill in a second.

    If you have never experienced a near death incident. It can be very surreal and things like time and hearing are effected.

    The normal person is not programmed to respond with violence as a first resort. This may slow the OODA loop.

    Handgun vs AR/AK/shotgun + body armor.

    Your gonna have to be lucky and good or your gonna die. The common carry is a compact or sub compact. Very few of INGO peeps are sporting a hand cannon in the summer.

    God bless you if you have the frame of mind to get a head or pelvic shot. When someone is actually trying to kill you.

    Good luck
    1911 year round. So I may be in the minority. I think it all comes down training, muscle memory.
    shot placement is going to be situation based.
     

    OkieGirl

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    Respectfully, dig back in your memory to a time in your life when you were terrified. Did your body shake after the adrenaline dump? Does that impact your aim? Do you train with that in mind or adjust your carry choice to accommodate the very human element of fear? I practice to be able to hit the X with a 22 pistol at 50 feet. Would I be able to do that under pressure? Not a chance.

    I was sitting in church several weeks ago and noticed odd behavior by three men. I assumed they were security but I do not know. I watched Mr. Clean shaved button-up walk in and try to look cool as he was very intent on someone/something near the front center opposite the side I was sitting on. He took his time to pretend to be friendly to others while taking in as much as he could of his target. No printing from his tucked in shirt, no jacket to cover a firearm. I was now on alert...review the exits, which are closer, which would most people run to, which would put me in the line of fire from the obvious locations? I was unarmed, spent several minutes chastising myself for poor choices. Second guy comes in immediately following Mr. Clean shaved button-up, this guy was wearing jeans and a dress shirt and sits in the empty chair immediately in front of me and very intent on someone/something near the front center opposite me. I text the hubs giving a quick sit rep and try and decide my exit strategy. Third guy comes in and sits across the isle from me, this guy is more ex-military vibe wearing sneakers, jeans and a t-shirt. I remember making eye contact with this particular gentleman when I entered the building that morning, I scan a room every time I walk into one...something about him gave me the creeps. He sat down and was very intent on the same target as the first two and was not trying to be low key about his interest (sloppy?). That was enough for me. I gathered my things and left. I've since begun the journey of selecting an EDC w/ laser and training with it. I've tried several holster options that would accommodate a dress/skirt so that I can carry quietly and unnoticed, and ensure I am NOT in that situation again. I believe the 'rules' have changed and we are not safe anywhere anymore. I don't like this new era but I also do not want to sit by and be a slave to it...or a slave to fear. I'll not be disarmed again.

    I agree completely with the poster above who says training is key. We have to have the muscle memory to react the way we want to in moments of extreme stress. If we choose to carry we are also taking upon ourselves to act responsibility in those moments. I asked myself if I would take a shot if I had to, if I were the only one armed and my answer was 'no' because I wasn't comfortable with my skill at a distance when shaking in fear...so I am changing to recalculate that equation. I've changed the tool, I am changing the training, and I am improving the skills that I pray I will never need...
     

    Steve

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    Like others here, I find myself out in public unarmed to many times (let the flames begin). I tell myself that I'm just going to the store or running a couple of short errands and will be back home shortly. Well, those days are over. I now keep my truck keys next to me EDC so that I can grab both any time I leave the house. I have also made a concentrated effort to become far more observant of my surroundings any time I am out and about. Yes, I have started putting more range time in as well.

    I have 2 questions for the huddled masses here. First, how does one prepare for the actual emotions that will occur if you are forced to take a life to save another? Physical and mental training are 1 thing, but what about emotional training? 2nd question is about choice of weapon. I am currently comfortable with my S&W Shield .45. But I am wondering if I am "under gunned" in today's world. Not in caliber, but in ammo capacity. I would like to think that 7 rds would be more than enough to stop the threat, but would 15 rds of 9mm be better? Yeah, I know shot placement is key, but does the "more is better" theory apply here?

    I welcome your comments.

    Let me conclude with, like you, I pray that I am never put to the test. But if I am, then I can only hope that I have the courage and skills to do what must be done.
     

    Amishman44

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    1911 year round. So I may be in the minority. I think it all comes down training, muscle memory.
    shot placement is going to be situation based.
    That...and 'keeping-your-head' along with your thought process working in a chaotic and highly stressful situation!
     
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