Suggestions for mis-feeding CMMG MKG 45acp?

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  • ghitch75

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    An update for anyone who follows such things.

    After contacting CMMG again they suggested I try using Winchester White Box. Strangely enough, it seemed to run a lot better. There were still a couple of misfeeds, but there was a noticeable increase in reliability.

    Does anyone have any suggestions why WWB would make a difference? Of all the other factory ammos (AE,S&B, Independence,UMC) I tried I just have a hard time swallowing the pill that the preferred ammo for this firearm is WWB.

    I'm still tempted to buy another buffer spring and take off a coil or two or try a different buffer.

    WWB there over all length tend to be longer than others..........can you bend the feed lips on the mags in any????
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    So, after two weeks I called and asked what was going on. The CS rep told me he thought he had sent me their video and that I had approved it AND that he had already sent me tracking information.

    He had not.

    I was going to wait to post an update until after I got to the range, but this episode has me pretty ticked at this point. I picked up the gun yesterday from UPS. There seemed to be a lot of "looseness" to the box. A little backstory; I am pretty anal about shipping guns. "Looseness" is not acceptable. I sent the gun back both times utilizing the original heavy-duty plastic bag the gun came in. I also added additional packing material to keep things from sliding around. The first time it came back it was only wrapped in the bag. They shipped it back in the same factory box that I bought it in and returned to them but left off the bubble wrap.

    When I unpacked it this second time, I found that the gun was not wrapped in anything and the bubble wrap that I had added to the box to take up empty space at the ends was missing. Apparently it was too troublesome to leave it in the box. The inside of the box is getting pretty torn up due to things moving around. What pushes me over the edge is that they didn't even bother to close the dust cover. Maybe I'm over-reacting but it seems to me they were treating it like junk.

    They had told me to return the gun the second time because the magazines I had sent to them tested fine. Note, I also had to call and prompt them on this as I returned the magazines and hadn't heard anything for two weeks.

    This time they said four of the mags were bad and they returned to me three original mags (one of which has caused me problems in the past, the markings I put on them are still there) and four new mags.

    Before I continue complaining, I will take it to the range this weekend in the same condition they returned it to me to test fire it. CS has suggested if the malfunction continues I take a video of myself shooting the gun so they can eliminate the "human factor".
     

    WebSnyper

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    So, after two weeks I called and asked what was going on. The CS rep told me he thought he had sent me their video and that I had approved it AND that he had already sent me tracking information.

    He had not.

    I was going to wait to post an update until after I got to the range, but this episode has me pretty ticked at this point. I picked up the gun yesterday from UPS. There seemed to be a lot of "looseness" to the box. A little backstory; I am pretty anal about shipping guns. "Looseness" is not acceptable. I sent the gun back both times utilizing the original heavy-duty plastic bag the gun came in. I also added additional packing material to keep things from sliding around. The first time it came back it was only wrapped in the bag. They shipped it back in the same factory box that I bought it in and returned to them but left off the bubble wrap.

    When I unpacked it this second time, I found that the gun was not wrapped in anything and the bubble wrap that I had added to the box to take up empty space at the ends was missing. Apparently it was too troublesome to leave it in the box. The inside of the box is getting pretty torn up due to things moving around. What pushes me over the edge is that they didn't even bother to close the dust cover. Maybe I'm over-reacting but it seems to me they were treating it like junk.

    They had told me to return the gun the second time because the magazines I had sent to them tested fine. Note, I also had to call and prompt them on this as I returned the magazines and hadn't heard anything for two weeks.

    This time they said four of the mags were bad and they returned to me three original mags (one of which has caused me problems in the past, the markings I put on them are still there) and four new mags.

    Before I continue complaining, I will take it to the range this weekend in the same condition they returned it to me to test fire it. CS has suggested if the malfunction continues I take a video of myself shooting the gun so they can eliminate the "human factor".

    Did you ever get their video? What, if anything, did it show? Just curious. And I would not be happy either in your shoes.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    Did you ever get their video? What, if anything, did it show? Just curious. And I would not be happy either in your shoes.

    I tried to download it, but the website hung up and I figured it didn't matter anyway since the gun was already on its way back.

    A little update, maybe the last.

    Made it out to the range this weekend and ran it with the new mag. The results were very encouraging. The new mag ran without a single malfunction. I even ran it with some reloads and didn't have a problem. Surprised with the results, I ran one of the old mags CMMG returned to me and I did get a malfunction with my reloads. Note, I do not hold any manufacturer responsible for not running with my reloads, even if I do use common recipes.

    I thoroughly cleaned and lubed the firearm yesterday. Next Saturday I will take it back out and give it a thorough testing. I am interested to see if in the long run the changes to the mag catch will prevent the damage to the magazines from reoccuring. I hope I don't have to buy new mags every couple thousand rounds.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    I took out the MKG again this Saturday. With the old mags I got two nose down misfeeds with Magtech ammo. I haven't seen a misfeed of that kind for almost 1000 rounds.

    Performance with the new magazine has been flawless, even using my reloads, UMC, and the Magtech.

    Final observation:

    CMMG honored their guarantee and took the firearm back twice. Kudos to them.
    I had to remind them twice they owed me a response. Boo!
    They replaced 4 out of seven magazines.
    Of the three mags returned to me, two still have problems.

    I'm not certain how to rate the overall experience. Some good, some bad. Things seem to be looking up for my MKG. It is going to take me a long time to trust it and it will never be selected for use in a defensive situation.

    I enjoy shooting it and it makes for a fun afternoon, but it was a pretty high price point for a square-range plinker. I could have bought a hi-point for doing that.

    Despite having a cool looking product line, I own two CMMG firearms and that is probably all I will ever own.
     

    bmbutch

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    Bumping this older thread, as mine is doing the exact same thing on 3rd to last round. Even when just loading 3.

    How’s your running now? Guess I have a call to make.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    Bumping this older thread, as mine is doing the exact same thing on 3rd to last round. Even when just loading 3.

    How’s your running now? Guess I have a call to make.


    Interesting to hear that I'm not crazy. Well, that's debatable.

    I never quite got a handle on it and it is frustrating as H*ll. I have resigned myself to it being just a paper puncher until it proves itself reliable. I will not send it back to CMMG again until something actually breaks.

    What I have done since this thread:

    I took out the buffer and thought about messing around with the weights. I couldn't get the plug out of the end of it, the interwebz say some are glued in. I could have tried grabbing it with some channel locks but I feared destroying it.

    It runs better with brand new magazines. This only lasts for a few hundred rounds before the little lip starts showing up on the top of the mag-catch notch.

    I started loading 5.8grn of 231 with a 230grn projectile. My standard loading for 45acp is 5.3grn, so this is a little warmer load.

    It runs better the hotter it is outside. +80F preferably. Malfunctions decrease with temperature. At 90 degrees with a new mag and hotter loads it has run like a champ.

    Maybe some of the Gurus around here can make some suggestions with this additional information.

    I am on the cusp of just getting another buffer weight and lighten it up a little. From what I have read I have been hesitant due to potential damage to the firearm. At a point very soon I will not care about that any longer. For now, I have been hoping that general wear to the various parts and the buffer spring would take care of the problem.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    Bumping this older thread, as mine is doing the exact same thing on 3rd to last round. Even when just loading 3.

    How’s your running now? Guess I have a call to make.


    So, have you made a decision how you are going to proceed?

    I'm interested in finding out what experience you have dealing with CMMG (In my case they pretty much called it user error) or what solutions you are willing to try.

    The range-rat-regulars keep encouraging me to not give up hope on my MKG. One of them really likes it, but not enough to buy it off of me.

    One of these days I'm going to get another buffer and play around with the weight. This just seems like a rough time to try and source gun parts just for dinking around with a problem child. Priorities have just been higher elsewhere.
     

    223 Gunner

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    Are you able to take a video of it malfunctioning that you could send to CMMG?
    I would insist on them fixing the problem.
    I had a Knights AR several years ago that went back to them 3 times.
    Once it was fixed I sold it and swore them off forever, will never buy another Knights product or Kimber either.
     

    bmbutch

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    So, have you made a decision how you are going to proceed?

    I'm interested in finding out what experience you have dealing with CMMG (In my case they pretty much called it user error) or what solutions you are willing to try.

    The range-rat-regulars keep encouraging me to not give up hope on my MKG. One of them really likes it, but not enough to buy it off of me.

    One of these days I'm going to get another buffer and play around with the weight. This just seems like a rough time to try and source gun parts just for dinking around with a problem child. Priorities have just been higher elsewhere.

    Travelling for work, haven't made it back out to the range, and heading to Sedona, AZ for vacation in about an hour (why am I surfing INGO?, maybe I'm crazy as well), hopefully try it out soon.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    Are you able to take a video of it malfunctioning that you could send to CMMG?
    I would insist on them fixing the problem.
    I had a Knights AR several years ago that went back to them 3 times.
    Once it was fixed I sold it and swore them off forever, will never buy another Knights product or Kimber either.


    They (Brian) wanted a video close-up of the ejection port/bolt cycling and one of me shooting the firearm. I do not have the equipment to put up a stand with a video recording device on it. The malfunction has become infrequent enough (but still irritating and reducing confidence) that I haven't asked anyone to stand and record video after video waiting for the malfunction to happen.

    Aside from that, the suggestion that the fault is caused by shooter error that can be revealed on video is either 1)Insulting or 2)Their gun is just sooo special that my technique and form is so flawed that I cause it to malfunction...sometimes...but not always...on the third round to the end of the magazine...only.

    The insistence that they honor their guarantee and fix it seemed pretty hollow after the way the firearm was returned to me the second time. I decided to not mess around shipping a firearm back and forth under the guise that it was a rifle and not a pistol (4-6 days vs 2nd day, infer your own story) with UPS when it was going to be treated like a piece of junk.

    My final conclusion was that everybody makes lemons from time to time. The manufacturer can own up to it quickly and make it right or can blame it on the end-user. I'll add this is the second dealing I had with them about one of their firearms. Both times have resulted in less than satisfactory resolution.

    Despite numerous stories of others' success, I will not be purchasing another CMMG firearm for myself. Best of luck to anyone who chooses CMMG, but I am through with them. When its serviceable life is depleted I will dispose of their junk.
     

    STFU

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    Great thread guys. I have been looking at building an AR45 and have been going back and forth between CMMG and Stern Defense.

    Karl, thank you for sharing all of this. Very enlightening information.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    Great thread guys. I have been looking at building an AR45 and have been going back and forth between CMMG and Stern Defense.

    Karl, thank you for sharing all of this. Very enlightening information.


    I still like the idea of a PCC/Braced Pistol in 45ACP. I just wish I had one I could depend on.

    It was the RDB that got my attention.

    If/When the current madness subsides I will start looking again.
     

    bmbutch

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    Update from my issues:

    Took freshly cleaned Banshee and well lubed out Wed. Used WWB, Federal Red Box, Aguila, and some reloads (Rocky Mountain Reloading 230gr plated, loaded via me):
    Results:
    Various mags, some Glock (13-rnd) some CMMG "SGM Tactical" 26-rnds. All 6-mags preformed similar.

    Aguila:
    Horrible, lots of failure to feeds (varied, sometimes ever 2x or 3x, sometimes after a few more), normally quick/short pull back on charging handle and release, it would feed fine.

    WWB:
    Better, but still had random issues almost every mag. When it did fail to feed, would have to drop mag, and clear/reset.

    Federal:
    No issues, 100-rounds, all different mags, no issues.

    Reloads:
    50-rounds, no issues.

    After that, decided to measure OAL and Diameter @ top of case (11x):
    Aguila:
    Min1.2540.465
    Max1.2670.47
    Range0.0130.005
    Avg1.2630.469

    WWB:
    Min1.2610.469
    Max1.2710.471
    Range0.010.002
    Avg1.2670.470

    Federal Red Box:
    Min1.2650.465
    Max1.2680.472
    Range0.0030.007
    Avg1.2660.470

    Reloads:
    Min1.2520.471
    Max1.2650.472
    Range0.0130.001
    Avg1.2560.472

    Pics of the failure x feed:

    2emoJ2D.jpg


    EdCA7Jp.jpg


    TgG0Tsb.jpg


    Will call CMMG today for their feedback. I really don't want a firearm that is that ammo picky, and not sure I can draw a firm conclusion from measurement data. Looks like longer / shorter than Aguila is the partial answer.
    I'm kicking around measuring numerous bullets, and sorting by OAL, and then seeing results.

    Any opinions/feedback?
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Update from my issues:

    Took freshly cleaned Banshee and well lubed out Wed. Used WWB, Federal Red Box, Aguila, and some reloads (Rocky Mountain Reloading 230gr plated, loaded via me):
    Results:
    Various mags, some Glock (13-rnd) some CMMG "SGM Tactical" 26-rnds. All 6-mags preformed similar.



    Aguila:
    Horrible, lots of failure to feeds (varied, sometimes ever 2x or 3x, sometimes after a few more), normally quick/short pull back on charging handle and release, it would feed fine.

    WWB:
    Better, but still had random issues almost every mag. When it did fail to feed, would have to drop mag, and clear/reset.

    Federal:
    No issues, 100-rounds, all different mags, no issues.

    Reloads:
    50-rounds, no issues.

    After that, decided to measure OAL and Diameter @ top of case (11x):
    Aguila:
    Min1.2540.465
    Max1.2670.47
    Range0.0130.005
    Avg1.2630.469

    WWB:
    Min1.2610.469
    Max1.2710.471
    Range0.010.002
    Avg1.2670.470

    Federal Red Box:
    Min1.2650.465
    Max1.2680.472
    Range0.0030.007
    Avg1.2660.470

    Reloads:
    Min1.2520.471
    Max1.2650.472
    Range0.0130.001
    Avg1.2560.472

    Pics of the failure x feed:

    2emoJ2D.jpg


    EdCA7Jp.jpg


    TgG0Tsb.jpg


    Will call CMMG today for their feedback. I really don't want a firearm that is that ammo picky, and not sure I can draw a firm conclusion from measurement data. Looks like longer / shorter than Aguila is the partial answer.
    I'm kicking around measuring numerous bullets, and sorting by OAL, and then seeing results.

    Any opinions/feedback?


    Just this feedback...

    Keeping this kind of substandard firearm around is like NOT killing Old Yeller. Not the best decision.
     

    Karl-just-Karl

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    At this point it is just difficult to say anything.

    It is just one persistent frustrating issue. It is just so close to being an awesome firearm...but I just can't depend on it to be 100% reliable.

    The last time I took mine out I think I only had one misfeed out of a hundred rounds. I was shooting my slightly-warmer-than-normal reloads. I was just using one magazine over and over.

    The little plastic lip deformation is starting to show up on on the new magazines.


    Thanks for the boot in the rear. I've been meaning to get mine out again and start messing with it. Maybe this is the reminder that I needed.
     

    bmbutch

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    Called CMMG, sent them pictures and the info I posted, they think it’s the magazine catch and spring, sending me new ones.
    Not sure I buy that answer, but I’ll swap them out and give her another go. I’ll update after.

    Hope I get it 100%, it’s a very fun gun to shoot.
     
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