Street Sign Question

[Mr. Habib]

Probably a long shot, but the collective knowledge of INGO has surprised me before, so here we go. What are the requirements for spacing of a street sign from the traveled portion of a city street?
Is there a required set back from the pavement? If so what is it and what ordinance or regulation references it?

Back story an acquaintance, no not me, was recently driving down a local residential street and struck a street sign with their mirror. This sign has it's pole set in the pavement outside of the curb with the
sign, obviously, protruding even further into the path of traffic. Do they have any recourse against the city for damages to their vehicle?

 

[EyeCarry]

Hoo-boy, doesn't that p.... you off.
Tagged for forthcoming answers. My guess is the city won't pay.

I know in the eighties I got a ticket for parking my Sportster on the sidewalk right up next to Nick's and now these electric scooters are lying everywhere with no penalty. Unrelated story but I certainly understand the frustration.

 

[Doug28450]

Go to the InDOT website and look for the Highway Standards Drawings. It's probably in there. If you aren't sure, send me a PM and I'll look tomorrow.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Hoo-boy, doesn't that p.... you off.
Tagged for forthcoming answers. My guess is the city won't pay.

I know in the eighties I got a ticket for parking my Sportster on the sidewalk right up next to Nick's and now these electric scooters are lying everywhere with no penalty. Unrelated story but I certainly understand the frustration.

My guess is that they won't pay voluntarily. Civil suites with INDOT regulations and pictures of concrete filled buckets holding stop signs 3 feet out into the street as evidence just might change their perspective on the matter. Lawyers get expensive quickly. Especially when you're paying for yours and the plaintiff's.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Go to the InDOT website and look for the Highway Standards Drawings. It's probably in there. If you aren't sure, send me a PM and I'll look tomorrow.

Thanks. I may take you up on your offer tomorrow if I can't find it myself.

 

[jsx1043]

In another lifetime, I did sign work with my brother's sign company. While I don't remember exactly what the rule was, there are ordinances and such that specify how far back from the roadway signage must be in order to provide for clear line-of-sight for vehicles entering and exiting the roadway from a cross street. That might be your best bet.

 

[Brandon]

No anseer for the op, but I was in a neighborhood on my way to the job site the other day and the stop sign for our lane was about 8 feet off the road and the road took a bend to the left. There was a tall pine tree kind of in front of the sign as you are coming down the road. Only about when you are about to pass it do you see it.

 

[femurphy77]

It'll probably be treated like a pothole incident; if it hasn't been reported as a problem it's not considered a valid claim. If it has been reported then, well, pay attention as they still won't pay it.

 

[Kozaturf]

Stop sign height is 7ft to the bottom of the sign, 10ft to the bottom of the street name bracket. Post for either is minimum 2ft off the edge of the road.

 

[armalitesheepdog]

I'm thinking fixing the mirror will be less expensive and time consuming.
I get the moral justification but...
Dealing with government sometimes just ain't worth it

 

[Mr. Habib]

Stop sign height is 7ft to the bottom of the sign, 10ft to the bottom of the street name bracket. Post for either is minimum 2ft off the edge of the road.

Thanks! That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Do you have a reference we can use if things go that far?

 

[Mr. Habib]

I'm thinking fixing the mirror will be less expensive and time consuming.
I get the moral justification but...
Dealing with government sometimes just ain't worth it

Replacing the mirror was nearly a grand. Small claims court will be much cheaper.

 

[Kozaturf]

Thanks! That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Do you have a reference we can use if things go that far?

Here you go, this is the most recent one I could find.

https://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/design/mutcd/pubs/a03Ch2A(Final2008).pdf

You want page 2A-11 second image down on the left side left side. Also page 2A-13 near the bottom on to 2A-14 lists mounting heights in writing.

 

[churchmouse]

Probably a long shot, but the collective knowledge of INGO has surprised me before, so here we go. What are the requirements for spacing of a street sign from the traveled portion of a city street?
Is there a required set back from the pavement? If so what is it and what ordinance or regulation references it?

Back story an acquaintance, no not me, was recently driving down a local residential street and struck a street sign with their mirror. This sign has it's pole set in the pavement outside of the curb with the
sign, obviously, protruding even further into the path of traffic. Do they have any recourse against the city for damages to their vehicle?

All I can say and I mean no disrespect but seriously why is this anyway a fault outside of operator error.
pay attention regardless.

 

[Mr. Habib]

All I can say and I mean no disrespect but seriously why is this anyway a fault outside of operator error.
pay attention regardless.

No disrespect taken. I wasn't there when this happened, but the sentiment is there just the same. The point is there are regulations for street construction for a reason. If the driver had hit a pot hole caused by poor maintenance or shoddy construction and damaged their vehicle should they have just paid more attention? The principle is the same. The roads should be built and maintained to some minimum safe standard. When you're driving a fairly large vehicle down a narrow residential street, you can only be so far from the curb before you're in the other lane no matter how much attention you pay.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Here you go, this is the most recent one I could find.

https://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/design/mutcd/pubs/a03Ch2A(Final2008).pdf

You want page 2A-11 second image down on the left side left side. Also page 2A-13 near the bottom on to 2A-14 lists mounting heights in writing.

Thanks, I'll check that out.

 

[churchmouse]

No disrespect taken. I wasn't there when this happened, but the sentiment is there just the same. The point is there are regulations for street construction for a reason. If the driver had hit a pot hole caused by poor maintenance or shoddy construction and damaged their vehicle should they have just paid more attention? The principle is the same. The roads should be built and maintained to some minimum safe standard. When you're driving a fairly large vehicle down a narrow residential street, you can only be so far from the curb before you're in the other lane no matter how much attention you pay.

Oh please knw I understand and to a point agree.

Heres my thing. If there are or is "A" car parked along the street. You or whom ever is driving along and you clip the mirror on that car. Who is actually at fault here. In all honesty.
1st thing I taught my kids when they learned to drive. Know where you are and whats around you. Mainly the "whats around you" part. Will the car fit through there. If not why.

Thats just how I was taught and passed on to others.

No, the sign should not have been out there possibly.

Yes we are responsible for our car and where we point it.

This does not equate to a pot hole basically. A pot hole can and does sneak up on you if it is under the car/truck in front of you. Not so much a sign standing 7' tall.

JMHO and take it for what its worth. My opinion and $1.50 might get you a small cup of coffee.

 

[churchmouse]

Oh please knw I understand and to a point agree.

Heres my thing. If there are or is "A" car parked along the street. You or whom ever is driving along and you clip the mirror on that car. Who is actually at fault here. In all honesty.
1st thing I taught my kids when they learned to drive. Know where you are and whats around you. Mainly the "whats around you" part. Will the car fit through there. If not why. And if you are facing traffic when attempting to drive around something you have to stop. Until that traffic is clear. We do this all the time on the side streets cutting through the area since the city butt heads shut down Georgetown road by the speedway. So we are forced into the side streets full of parked cars.

Thats just how I was taught and passed on to others.

No, the sign should not have been out there possibly.

Yes we are responsible for our car and where we point it.

This does not equate to a pot hole basically. A pot hole can and does sneak up on you if it is under the car/truck in front of you. Not so much a sign standing 7' tall.

JMHO and take it for what its worth. My opinion and $1.50 might get you a small cup of coffee.

 

[Ark]

Here you go, this is the most recent one I could find.

https://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/design/mutcd/pubs/a03Ch2A(Final2008).pdf

You want page 2A-11 second image down on the left side left side. Also page 2A-13 near the bottom on to 2A-14 lists mounting heights in writing.

Nice. OP should identify the type of intersection, shoot some photos and compare to those regs. If in clear violation and fully documented, that seems like a reasonable shot in small claims court to my non-lawyer brain. But first, a call with that information to the street department of the city in question could potentially yield a straightforward out-of-court claim. Practices on that kind of thing differ by city.

Sure seems nutty for this person to have busted a mirror on a street sign, specifically, unless they were driving an RV or something.

I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on the internet. But it's sometimes impressive what a simple, polite call with all your ducks in a row can accomplish.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Note: Be sure that the municipality doesn't also have rules/regulations for their own street signage.

Despite being a former INDOT employee, I'm not sure if the INDOT signage requirements cover more than what INDOT is responsible for or not (State, US, and Interstate Highways basically)