Sportsman's Warehouse NICS Policy

[actaeon277]

So, we need to try to get the law changed to ... shall release.
Maybe leave some provision allowing for suspecting a straw purchase or something.

Course.. I'm not a big fan of big government requiring a sale.


Maybe instead of that, having something protecting the merchant from a possible lawsuit.
That would at least remove the reason behind their decision.

 

[marvin02]

So, we need to try to get the law changed to ... shall release.
Maybe leave some provision allowing for suspecting a straw purchase or something.

Course.. I'm not a big fan of big government requiring a sale.


Maybe instead of that, having something protecting the merchant from a possible lawsuit.
That would at least remove the reason behind their decision.

I think some of the problem with the big box stores is that they have stores in multiple states which could have differing laws.

The first paper I linked to from the NSSF, shows that statistically it is a small problem.

Customer service may enter into this with little follow up at the discount big box stores.

 

[snapping turtle]

If the gun was released then the denial came in and the gun used in a major crime wave or mass shooting. The fallout from the media on say RK, BASS PRO ECT. WOULD BE A BIG HIT TO THE CORPORATE bottom line.
the small local dealer not so much.

I also think that the can release language was written in to not force the sale after 72 hours. MY local dealer always told me “I can choose not to sell a gun to anyone I don’t want to.” Said it was his right if something felt out of place or the person seemed edgy or shady. He also said he had only once done so. The gentleman later that evening drove his car into a power pole at 100 + MPH.

 

[DadSmith]

Three day delay is stripping law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment rights without a court trial. If they deny them they are stripped of their 2nd amendment rights without a court trial indefinitely.

NICS system is a violation of the Constitution period.

 

[VERT]

Not the governments place to tell a private business that they must complete a sell. If a store doesn’t want to the potential hassle of releasing a firearm upon the Brady date only to see a denial later that is up to the retailer. I have seen guns released after 5 days, followed by a NICS denial. It happens.

For that matter I also don’t agree with a baker being forced to bake a cake.

Restocking fees are a necessary evil. That is a gun that sits in inventory but is not able to be sold to another customer. Inventory isn’t free, money isn’t free. Stores make money by turning inventory. Ever wonder why fewer and fewer stores are offering lay away programs?

The real issue are for those that but online and then get delayed or denied. You buy online it’s your gun, the FFL only handles the transfer. Hint don’t go the big box store route for online transfers.

Again the answer is simple. Pay an extra -$20 to +$20 and buy local.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Never mind.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Never mind.

Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.

 

[NHT3]

Not the governments place to tell a private business that they must complete a sell. If a store doesn’t want to the potential hassle of releasing a firearm upon the Brady date only to see a denial later that is up to the retailer. I have seen guns released after 5 days, followed by a NICS denial. It happens.

For that matter I also don’t agree with a baker being forced to bake a cake.

Restocking fees are a necessary evil. That is a gun that sits in inventory but is not able to be sold to another customer. Inventory isn’t free, money isn’t free. Stores make money by turning inventory. Ever wonder why fewer and fewer stores are offering lay away programs?

The real issue are for those that but online and then get delayed or denied. You buy online it’s your gun, the FFL only handles the transfer. Hint don’t go the big box store route for online transfers.

Again the answer is simple. Pay an extra -$20 to +$20 and buy local.

There is no "potential hassle".. If that situation arises after the gun is legally released it's up to ATF to confront the offender and relieve them of the firearm. If ATF was forced into that situation a little more often possibly the government would take lying on the form more seriously and start prosecuting felons that lie on the 4473.

 

[VERT]

There is no "potential hassle".. If that situation arises after the gun is legally released it's up to ATF to confront the offender and relieve them of the firearm. If ATF was forced into that situation a little more often possibly the government would take lying on the form more seriously and start prosecuting felons that lie on the 4473.

Somebody still has to follow up, communicate with the ATF. Not a big deal for a gun shop that solely deals with guns. Much bigger deal for a big box store whose manager may or may not be well versed in such issues. Somewhere I think we have discussed this in depth in the past. Basically chain stores are simply not equipped to deal with the communication or bad PR. They have to deal with employees, (or lack of), HR, turn over, training. What they need are guidelines that are in stone and universal across locations. Releasing the gun is not in their best interest.

Local gun shops on the other hand business relies on the sell of guns and the support of the firearms community. Different motivation.

I suppose I look at this topic a bit differently since I occasionally help a friend in his local shop and some of my very good friends work there as well. So I see the inner workings a bit. My father who is also an avid shooter works his retirement job at a National Retailer.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Somebody still has to follow up, communicate with the ATF. Not a big deal for a gun shop that solely deals with guns. Much bigger deal for a big box store whose manager may or may not be well versed in such issues. Somewhere I think we have discussed this in depth in the past. Basically chain stores are simply not equipped to deal with the communication or bad PR. They have to deal with employees, (or lack of), HR, turn over, training. What they need are guidelines that are in stone and universal across locations. Releasing the gun is not in their best interest.

THIS.

The lawyers fear "THEY SOLD A GUN TO A PERSON DENIED BY THE ATF!!!!!!!" propaganda.

Its nearly impossible to fight that, when everyone knows the reality is nuanced. So its easier to lose a couple thousand sales nationwide every year than to risk that nightmare. Cheap insurance if you consider an average margin of what? $20? $50? $75?

Just look at the Rittenhouse case. That is strikingly simple if you know the facts, but there are STILL folks spewing BS about carrying rifles across state lines, etc.

 

[Ark]

Sadly this is the case at basically all big box and corporate FFLs now, following a years-long pressure campaign attacking the Brady time limit and normalizing the idea that no gun should ever be transferred into a regular American's hands without a completed background check.

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

If only there were a solution to this problem.

 

[Ark]

If only there were a solution to this problem.

Abolish the FFL system and all 3-letter agencies?

 

[churchmouse]

Update: I had not heard anything from the store, so I stopped in today to check on the status and get some clarification. I was told their policy is to hold for 5 days on a delay. When they looked it up, it turned out they had recieved a proceed yesterday, but had not called me to let me know. Yesterday was black Friday though, so I can see how that would have happened. Anyway, took the new rifle home today. Just wanted to follow up and let y'all know the rest of the story.

Love a happy ending. Good on you for being patient.

 

[VERT]

Sadly this is the case at basically all big box and corporate FFLs now, following a years-long pressure campaign attacking the Brady time limit and normalizing the idea that no gun should ever be transferred into a regular American's hands without a completed background check.

I would would like to think it isn’t this politically motivated but who knows. I do think cameramonkey is spot on with his PR assessment. I do know for a fact that training and employee turnover is a huge concern. So take your pick of why it is the way it is and somewhere in the middle lays the truth.

Cameramonkey is correct in that firearms are low margin compared to other goods. Probably why Dad gets a nice employee discount on flannel shirts and only a flat 7% on firearms. Don’t get me wrong firearms are expensive and account for impressive sales numbers across the register. But at the end of the day the store is better off selling $500 worth of jeans then $1000 worth of guns. Ever wonder why you wait in line for the gun counter but have 5 people ask you to sign up for a credit card? This alone should answer a lot of questions.

 

[Twangbanger]

Three day delay is stripping law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment rights without a court trial. If they deny them they are stripped of their 2nd amendment rights without a court trial indefinitely.

NICS system is a violation of the Constitution period.

Do not forget, the Brady Bill started out as a 2-WEEK COOLING-OFF PERIOD(!). It took a lot of work to get it down to an instant check with a 3-day cutoff for cooperative retailers.

I strongly suspect that if any attempt were made to change the law now, "our voice" would be drowned out by the lobbyists for Big-Box retailers trying to make ALL retailers obey their rules and wait for a "proceed." Any changes will probably not be in our favor.

Remember how long the Liquor Stores in Indiana were able to stall Sunday Beer?

 

[KokomoDave]

Fork 'em. Buy the doggone thing at Indiana Gun Club, shoot the breeze with like minded people...and they will proceed after 3 days plus call you to let you know it's a "go".