Spare mag or pepper spray?

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  • jsharmon7

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    Nov 24, 2008
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    Yeah you really can't legally pull guns on people who are only threatening you with non lethal violence. Pepper spray is non lethal and can be used as "jackass repellant". Pulling your pistol on an aggressive panhandler who just won't leave you alone is not warranted.

    I've been carrying both a spare mag and OC for 20+ years now. The OC I carry (Fox Labs 11gram container) is smaller than the spare mag is. No real need to have to pick one or the other to carry. Mag goes on belt, OC goes in pocket.
    Maybe I’m just reading it wrong, but I’d be hesitant to pepper spray someone for being a jackass or obnoxious about asking for money.
     

    Gabriel

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    In my experience, pepper spray just pisses people off and makes a fight worse. Plus everyone gets a bit of it, including the person that sprayed it. That's in police work, though, where you have to continue to deal with the person that you just sprayed. For most people that would be using it to disorient someone and leave the area with a quickness, it's not a bad option.
     

    Amishman44

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    I like the last guy's argument about resetting the gun after the fight. Making ready for the trip home.
    I'm biased though. I have always carried a double mag pouch opposite of my pistol. The rig seems to balance well, on top of providing hip protection. ;)
    I'm with bwframe on carrying a double-mag pouch opposite the pistol for balance and hip protection.
    But, since chaperoning my kid's school trip to Washington, DC this past October, where I did some research and chose Pepper Spray as one of my 'go to' defense items, behind a 2.75" knife and a Cold Steel Walking Stick.
    Now, I carry a small pepper spray in a fitted nylon pouch on the hip beside the double mag pouch!
    Love having an 'in-between' defensive deterrent rather than just a pistol for self-defense.
    In todays' world, one still needs a few levels of self-defense, not just a firearm!
    Key with everything you choose to carry for self-defense / deterrent, is to research and train with it!
     

    MCgrease08

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    I've been carrying the same canister of POM OC spray for almost two years now and it's getting to be time to replace it.

    I'll happy donate my old one to anyone who doesn't think pepper spray is effective and wants to personally put that theory to the test. We can film you getting hosed down and post it in this thread.

    Any takers? :stickpoke:
     

    Random_71

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    I dont carry OC, not consistent enough for me. Working in nightclubs, I have seen it work astoundingly, and fail horrifically, literally minutes apart. Nothing quite like watching 3 or 4 cans go empty and the brawl intensify because now they are drunk, blinded, and pissed off.

    Last time I was at a spraying I was on a smoking patio, had no clue. Confused I watched people react to something, while thinking "Why does the air smell spicy?"
     

    Random_71

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    I've been carrying the same canister of POM OC spray for almost two years now and it's getting to be time to replace it.

    I'll happy donate my old one to anyone who doesn't think pepper spray is effective and wants to personally put that theory to the test. We can film you getting hosed down and post it in this thread.

    Any takers? :stickpoke:
    No thanks. A few years back when I was catching collateral from it every other week (or more), maybe.
     

    Amishman44

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    I've been carrying the same canister of POM OC spray for almost two years now and it's getting to be time to replace it.
    I'll happy donate my old one to anyone who doesn't think pepper spray is effective and wants to personally put that theory to the test. We can film you getting hosed down and post it in this thread.
    Any takers? :stickpoke:
    As a former volunteer EMT, with 24 years experience, I have been present at several introductory pepper spray classes for new police officers who're being trained to carry and use pepper spray in the line of duty...and it's never a positive experience for the recipient! I've seen first-hand some very large, and very tough, men on their knees wimpering and begging for anything to 'calm this stuff down'!
     

    JeepHammer

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    I've used spray more than I've used a firearm...
    It's a case of having the right tool for the job, options are always good.

    When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

    I simply do too much so I don't want the police utility belt with ASP, spray, firearm, mags, etc.
    The vehicles have large cans of spray, being typical Americans, we pretty much live out of our vehicles.

    The wife carries her pistol about all the time, I carry when the mood strikes me, which isn't all that often.
     
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    Steve

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    Both options have their good points and bad points. My basic thought is that a bullet goes where you send it. Pepper spray goes which ever way the wind blows. And that could be a problem for you as well as the bad guy. While both have their place in a self defense platform, I know which one I would trust my life to. However, the best defense to to avoid the situation if at all possible. If not, then use whatever means needed to put a swift end to it.
     

    Fixer

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    Good conversation. While I can't say there is a right or wrong answer, I definitely disagree with your reasoning. You have to have something in between a harsh word and a gun. For many that may be H2H but a lot of people are too old or small or infirm or unskilled to go that route. I think OC can be a reasonable less than lethal option in many cases. I have not used it hundreds of times like Mr. Bolke in the video, but I have used it in excess of a dozen times and the only time it failed completely was on a drugged up temporarily out of prison beast. It took 5 of us to subdue him. Basically one each on arms and legs and one applying a LVNR, so I really can't fault the OC. I will agree that it is not the perfect answer, but it may be a good one. I know I have provided it for my wife and daughter and given them training on it.
    In that situation I would agree. As a civilian I am not interested in subduing him to either detain or arrest. If I am confronted and have no way to retreat and they are still being the aggressor I have a reasonable ability to defend myself. Starting with verbally as I retreat. If that doesn't work after repeated attempt and I am still being pursued with threats of violence I would more than likely pull my firearm. At that point it is up to the aggressor in the situation as to just how far he is going to take it. Just because he doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he can't take mine and use it against me if I let him get close enough to try to disarm me. If I decided to use pepper spray and it doesn't have the desired effect then more than likely he will be too close to deploy my firearm effectively.
    Again this is more of a civilian perspective. LE is looking for a whole different outcome to the situation. I am just trying to survive the encounter. I am not willing to risk using OC spray that may not hit the target or may impair me as well as the attacker or just fail to spray all together. Just uncovering your firearm and putting a hand on it could be all that is necessary to let you retreat from the situation.
     

    Randy Harris

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    Maybe I’m just reading it wrong, but I’d be hesitant to pepper spray someone for being a jackass or obnoxious about asking for money.
    To clarify... when I say “jackass “ I don’t mean someone being rude . I mean someone who is being belligerent and physically threatening but not to the point of being a lethal threat...yet.

    And then there is a difference between someone asking you for money on the street and someone who just won’t take “no” for an answer and not allowing you to just walk away and who is probably sizing you up as a victim.

    As to effectiveness, the effects vary from person to person but I’m not trying to stay and take them into custody or physically control them. I really just want them to close their eyes and turn their head for a second or two so I can disengage. Most folks don’t want to follow you after you spray them and if they do then we can make a case for transitioning to a different weapon.
     

    ECS686

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    I’ve used OC spray myself Dozens of times and seen it hundreds of times more in an LE setting. My take away with civilians. It can be usefully deployed but can have issues the user might not know. Like mentioned there’s always the chance of non effectiveness them what?

    I have also seen the user (myself included) get secondary residual exposure. This can happen if the peep wrestles you after you spray him (it will get on you) the wind changes direction (little Mr Murphy) and probably not a civilian concern but the fight changes and a Rookie co worker hits you with his)

    Then how to carry an extra piece of gear, how do you deploy it, carry it. (Outside of a pocket where it’s easy to get to)

    I just do an extra magazine or speedloader.
     
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    JohnP82

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    I dont carry OC, not consistent enough for me. Working in nightclubs, I have seen it work astoundingly, and fail horrifically, literally minutes apart. Nothing quite like watching 3 or 4 cans go empty and the brawl intensify because now they are drunk, blinded, and pissed off.

    Last time I was at a spraying I was on a smoking patio, had no clue. Confused I watched people react to something, while thinking "Why does the air smell spicy?"

    Hmm...well I wonder where that was at? Bet I could take a wild guess
     

    cedartop

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    Lee Weems and John Murphy have a good talk here about pepper spray, its usefulness and how it is different for LE vs. regular folk. One thing I hadn't thought of but they are right pointing out the strong parallels with shooting someone vs pepper spraying them. That is, some people it will affect immediately, some it will take some time, and some will not be impressed in the least.

     
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