Slavery in America

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  • jamil

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    THIS ^^^^^ Those who are quick to point out 'two wrongs don't make a right' when, say, it is pointed out that conservatives or Trump are only doing what has been done to them when they take certain actions, will ignore that same sentiment when affirmative action discriminates against certain races in order to make up for past discrimination - whether or not those discriminated against themselves were guilty of discrimination

    'Two wrongs don't make a right' turns out to be as situational as everything else
    Two wrongs don’t make a right. Affirmative action is another phrase for racism. Two things can be true at the same time.
     

    jamil

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    And lets go a bit further shall we? Since YOU want to discuss jobs and availability ONLY to certain people, let`s talk about affirmative action, shall we? But you won`t want to go there, since it won`t showcase your righteous indignation.
    CRT’ists don’t like affirmative action.
     

    gregr

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    The point that I made was that the issue with teaching CRT is that it is predicted on finding racism in everything. They apparently found it in mathematics.

    If you analyze everything through the prism of racism you will see racism in everything.
    Then there`s the unspoken but completely accepted theory that only ONE race can be "racist"...
     

    phylodog

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    Sure. The benefit of teaching CRT is to create Antiracist allies. It's not just a history lesson. It's a history lesson from a specific point of view to create empathy for historically marginalized groups, so that Antiracist allies will help them dismantle the racist institutions. And by institutions they mean every kind of institution in society. Sports, education, religion, entertainment, news, business, etcetera. They're all racist because races aren't all "equitable". Because, you know, there can't be any other cause to racial inequality other than racist policies.

    The "theory" in critical race theory doesn't mean the same kind of theory as in, say, science. It's more of a strategy than a theory.
    So for people who actually appreciate what this country has to offer there is not only no benefit, but by teaching it we are raising a generation which looks to destroy everything we appreciate about this country.
     

    retyree98

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    After reading through these thoughtful posts, I have come to the conclusion that we would be far better off firing our representatives and senators, sending the bureaucrats and executives office holders into exile and allow the particpants of this thread to govern the country. They are diverse, have differing opinions which they feel strongly about, can discuss their varying ideas without breaking friendships, respect one anothers ideas, clearly define and defend their positions without input from lobbyists or parroting some donating special interest groups wants. With few exceptions, I don't think there are spies among us, at least from foriegn countries. Of course for those domestic spies from the rank and file, see above about exile...you know who I mean...I'm positive the members would do a better job at trying to be fair and honest without hating the other side of each issue. There are so many people here we can classify as the common man, or woman... with common sense and just enough lawyers here to remind us of how easy it would be to slip back down that slippery slope. Tell me how having our moderators would do a worse job than the supreme court, and do it for free! I think some may have a better understanding of the law and the constitution than more than a few of the current justices and without the baggage and corruption. Dreams and wishes are free, they have not figured out how to tax them yet.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Like I said, I think people see the kinds of woke nonsense going on. And some people have called out CRT and that gives people a label to call the thing that they're seeing. It doesn't mean that they're not seeing what they're seeing. But also, a lot of it is CRT at the root.

    I don't think Kut is right. I think he's intentionally reducing CRT to something that sounds benign.
    If you were teaching it? Probably not. Unfortunately, I believe you are in the minority when it comes to your interpretation of CRT and what is actually being taught.
    I think you two have pretty much explained your reasons for your opposition to CRT. It’s not so really an opposition to the idea, but how it’s taught. CRT is essentially “history,” but calling it CRT is off putting; we which I completely understand. The fear isn’t the historical facts concerning, but potential for woke activist educators corrupting the idea with their own opinions.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
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    All 3 of his points had the word slavery in it. Never did he say anything about equality.
    The sentiment it the same - "Look, we ended slavery, so it's all good now. Let's call it squaresie and just say things are now even steven. If your community is having problems with inequality, then that's your problem."
     

    phylodog

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    I think you two have pretty much explained your reasons for your opposition to CRT. It’s not so really an opposition to the idea, but how it’s taught. CRT is essentially “history,” but calling it CRT is off putting; we which I completely understand. The fear isn’t the historical facts concerning, but potential for woke activist educators corrupting the idea with their own opinions.
    What comes next?

    Say the country caves in and CRT is everywhere and accepted as gospel, then what? What is the desired outcome? What is the intended benefit? Does CRT include any solutions or is it simply a new way of pointing out that bad things happened in the past? Just the latest clever topic to divide the nation?
     

    KG1

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    What comes next?

    Say the country caves in and CRT is everywhere and accepted as gospel, then what? What is the desired outcome? What is the intended benefit? Does CRT include any solutions or is it simply a new way of pointing out that bad things happened in the past? Just the latest clever topic to divide the nation?
    Apparently CRT leaves the “solutions” up to divisive woke ass activists.

    I see no one teaching CRT as a noble lesson in history attempting to set them straight or calling anyone out for corrupting a righteous cause.

    Until that happens there will be no real solutions and they will continue to take a bad rap for it.
     
    Last edited:

    grillak

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    CRT’ists don’t like affirmative action.
    i must disagree. affirmative action is a cornerstone of crt.

    crt's premise is that every white person is racist. in order for white people to stop being racist they have to prove they're not.

    how can they do that? by accepting and EMBRACING what ever black america says is racist today. and to make "reparations" (either by accepting them in the boardroom, the bathroom, the lunch counter). i'm am not saying that as a black man i shouldn't be accepted, but i, as a black man, do not want anyone to be FORCED to accept me for any reason.

    crt is just a racist as the willy lynch papers. crt is today's way of making "minorities" feel like they are owed anything beyond equal oppurtunity. no law will ever create equal oppurtunity. that is only gain by self realization that EVERYONE should be responsible for self.

    if i don't like how ANYONE treats me, i don't deal with them. i certainly don't FORCE them to like(!) me.
     

    grillak

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    and here it is....

    crt is another tool used by the modern slave handlers to keep "minorities" focused on being victims. to keep us waiting for "master" to fix OUR problem. to ensure that we acknowledge that we NEED them to save us from ourselves.

    slavery in america was the first and only time in modern history that it was implemented to the degree that it was. there was a calculated efforted to totally destroy, not just enslave, a certain race. it erased the history, culture, and religion of an entire population very effectively. it WAS NOT carried or supported out by all white people. it was a small percentage then and a small percentage now.

    slavery never went away. it just changed from purely physical to mostly psychological. it went from whips, dogs, cotton fields, slaves masters, and the kkk to foodstamps, sec 8, blm, crt, dope, and thug culture.

    in other words. the slave master has made slavery appealing to "minorities". therefore we as "minorities" want to be 21st century slaves. we no longer want the resposibility of self so we blame white people and beg them to fix our problems. our problems start and will end at home.

    when we as "minorites" start teaching our children right from wrong & civic reponsibility, to value knowledge & skill, and to accept ourselves, we'll realize that for the past 60+ yrs we had enslaved ourselves.

    there is a lot that needs to be worked on in this country but wasting time focusing on what went down 150 years ago WILL NOT fix the 21st century slave mentality of today's "minorities".

    some of you have seen some of my other posts in other threads. you should know how passionately i feel on this.
     

    grillak

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    i feel like i have to catch up int this conversation

    the tools of slavery have changed from whips and chains to what has been termed "black culture".

    "black culture" is used to excuse the idiotic behaviour of "minorities" today. the "black leaders" do nothing to educate "minorities". instead they try to convince us (all of us) that it is ok to be ignorant, loud, disrepectful, and lazy. they want "minorolities" ( but blacks in particular) to focus on "gettin dat money", gettin dem hoes", "gettin dat whip"...so that is all we care about. we abandon our dignity, pride, and families to chase an immaterial dream. the black "leadership" has introduced so many new negatives into our culture that we no longer question what they say. the basis of their control are the "freebies" ( foodstamps, sec 8, food pantries, affirmitive action, sexuality, etc). lbj said it, the REAL racists of his era implemented it and the REAL racists of today (we know who you are-and it's not who "minorities" claim them to be) continue it. it's been modernized to hide in plain sight.
     

    grillak

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    That is a favorably reductive description of CRT. First, I reject the idea that slavery can be described as "the original sin". It is *A* sin that the US participated in, along with the rest of the world. Of course we need to acknowledge the reluctance of the US to end it. It took a war to do it, notwithstanding BigRed's fantasy of the South being innocent victims of Lincoln. But for you and others to couch it in that religious wording isn't descriptive. The doctrine of original sin doesn't describe the dynamics of slavery in early US history.

    But, CRT gets some things right. The historical injustices committed against Black people in the US of course has affected Black people generationally in culture and status. But that's about all that CRT gets right. And that part that they get right could be taught without the identitarian ********. CRT makes some specific claims about the nature of White people and the nature of Black people, particularly that White people manifest racism always.

    So my objection to CRT is not that they're teaching that the generational injustices committed against Black people have disadvantaged Black people living today. The thing they also teach is that all the social institutions today were created by white people to maintain their power to oppress Black people and that is simply nonsense.

    The goal of CRT is to tear down all those institutions and create new ones which flip the hierarchy. The goal isn't just to end racism--they don't believe that racism can be ended, because they believe White people are inherently racist--the goal is to change the power structure, create new institutions, where they get to use institutional power against their oppressors.

    A sane and functional society would mock that idea and drive the ideologues who promulgate it to just stop.



    I agree that we're no where close, and that race relations have made great strides in the past 100 years. But I completely disagree that the CRT academia aren't saying it's still bad. Because they are. Micro-aggressions and cultural appropriation, and all that lingo they've developed, to me sound like excuses to claim racism is still as bad. And if we're talking within the thinking of CRT, yes, people ARE being told they're racist. We're told that if we want to live in a society that no longer cares about immutable characteristics, like skin color, that that's actually racist. So yes. People are being called racists for saying or doing things that aren't actually racist.

    ETA: A question for you. Is silence really violence? Must a White person be an anti-racist ally to forgive their original sin of racism? Now see, that's an appropriate usage of original sin to describe the way CRT academia thinks about it. They think White people are inherently racist and just can't help it--they keep saying it--as if they're incapable of racism themselves. That whole dogma is racist to the core. Hell no that ideological ******** should not be taught in school.
    wow!

    this definitely gets the prize. you, sir, are speaking truth.

    you can not end racism by flipping the dynamics to any race being considered superior to any other.

    today's "woke" culture demands that we accept that whites are GENETICALLY racists, therefore we must not only reject that but replace it with the notion that "minorities" are better than whites. it takes responsibilty away from so-called "people of color".

    as a black man in america,...let me rephrase that...as an AMERICAN who is black, i know the civil war was not as altruistic as some would like to believe. it was just as much about economics as it was about humanity. that particular war was a capitaist move to bring oppurtunities to the "woke" people of that era. it was only when the north realized the pure economic power of the south that slavery became a problem.

    no man can give me freedom, that is something i must take for myself. while the sjw lie and say they are carrying the torch of my forefathers they forgot to pick up the torch of truth, dignity, and sense of self. i don't want nor need some clown with blue, pink, green hair or some idiot with gold teeth, sagging pants, and broken (almost unintelligiblel) english telling me how wrong i am because i say it loudly that it is not the white man's fault.
     

    grillak

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    Insisting that an entire race has a character trait inherent uniquely to the race is racist. What sucks is that we can't say that in public unless we're willing to face some harsh consequences. It needs to be said. Even more than that, free societies usually kill bad ideas by bringing to the light how bad they are. It's how MLK defeated the racist institutions that existed then.
    my life has been threatened by black people for saying the exact same thing.
     
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