Sizing Your Generator

[wakproductions]

What's the peak (surge) wattage for this chest freezer? (idk why the label displays upside down) Is it 1.45A * 115V ~ 167 watts? That feels pretty low.

Also, what's the proper way to ground a generator? How necessary is grounding?

 

[churchmouse]

View attachment 84990
What's the peak (surge) wattage for this chest freezer? (idk why the label displays upside down) Is it 1.45A * 115V ~ 167 watts? That feels pretty low.

Also, what's the proper way to ground a generator? How necessary is grounding?

I would think that is Run loaded amps not LRA or start up amps.

This is an R 600 refrigerant unit or Butane. Yes butane. These units draw very small amounts of power to operate.

 

[maxwelhse]

What's the peak (surge) wattage for this chest freezer? (idk why the label displays upside down) Is it 1.45A * 115V ~ 167 watts? That feels pretty low.

Also, what's the proper way to ground a generator? How necessary is grounding?

Like CM said, that's probably about right. In the tests we've done at work (I work in appliances) I'd expect peak to be about double that, but only for a moment.

FWIW, I run about 35 ft^3 of refrigerators and a 17-20 ft^3 deep freezer, all 20 years old, off of a 5500 watt generator with so much spare capacity that the generator doesn't really even notice it.

 

[wakproductions]

Thanks guys, that makes me confident that the generator I got will power it. I plan on running a test, but I'm concerned about the lack of ground. The manual for this freezer says it needs to be grounded, but on my generator it's got a metal connector for ground and I'm not sure what a good thing to connect it to would be. I'm assuming alligator clips should be sufficient. What's the best way to test that ground is working using a multi-meter?

 

[maxwelhse]

Thanks guys, that makes me confident that the generator I got will power it. I plan on running a test, but I'm concerned about the lack of ground. The manual for this freezer says it needs to be grounded, but on my generator it's got a metal connector for ground and I'm not sure what a good thing to connect it to would be. I'm assuming alligator clips should be sufficient. What's the best way to test that ground is working using a multi-meter?

Seems like something your owner's manual should cover. Mine just has regular plugs.

Also, you may consider investing a Kilowatt so you can see what the actual draw of all of the stuff you want to connect is, then plan accordingly.

 

[wakproductions]

Seems like something your owner's manual should cover. Mine just has regular plugs.

Also, you may consider investing a Kilowatt so you can see what the actual draw of all of the stuff you want to connect is, then plan accordingly.

Thanks for suggesting the cool tool. I ordered one. My generator has a lead for connecting a grounding wire as seen in this picture. The manual says "Properly ground generator to prevent electric shock. Connect the ground terminal of the generator to the ground electrode buried in the ground.



The appliance I'm running says: "This freezer must be grounded. The freezer is equipped with a grounding plug. The plug must be inserted into an outlet that is properly installed and grounded. Improper use of the grounding plug can result in a risk of electric shock."

So
1) What's the best way of testing ground on my outlet to make sure whatever I'm grounding is working?
2) How important is it to run ground if I'm just doing a test of the generator? I realize that ground is an important safety feature, but just wondering how risky it is to just run once without connecting the generator to ground. (i.e. I don't have a copper rod available to bury 8 feet in the ground. Best I can probably use is a pipe, and not sure how to test it to be certain it's working.)

 

[maxwelhse]

Thanks for suggesting the cool tool. I ordered one. My generator has a lead for connecting a grounding wire as seen in this picture. The manual says "Properly ground generator to prevent electric shock. Connect the ground terminal of the generator to the ground electrode buried in the ground.

View attachment 85008

The appliance I'm running says: "This freezer must be grounded. The freezer is equipped with a grounding plug. The plug must be inserted into an outlet that is properly installed and grounded. Improper use of the grounding plug can result in a risk of electric shock."

So
1) What's the best way of testing ground on my outlet to make sure whatever I'm grounding is working?
2) How important is it to run ground if I'm just doing a test of the generator? I realize that ground is an important safety feature, but just wondering how risky it is to just run once without connecting the generator to ground. (i.e. I don't have a copper rod available to bury 8 feet in the ground. Best I can probably use is a pipe, and not sure how to test it to be certain it's working.)

No problem. I use my Kilowatt all the time just for fun.

I see what you're asking now. Your generator wants you to ground it since it has no other path to ground since it's all rubber isolated (and this seems like a good idea and something I should add to mine). So just stick a wire on that terminal and clip it to a steel water pipe or the ground rod by your meter base. Personally... I'd probably be lazy and just make up a cord that is only the ground wire for a normal outlet and just plug it in to an available outlet nearby. I did this for the surge protector on my CATV line to ground it. Easy peasy. Just make sure you clip off and isolate the live wire portion of that cable property and you'll be fine.

1 - If you're talking about the outlet on the generator, it won't be grounded unless you connect that terminal in the picture to a ground first. The easy way to test it once you do that is with a multimeter in continuity mode in the ground hole on the outlet of the generator and then the other end of the meter into the ground hole of an outlet on the house. Be sure you know what you're doing before you do this. It wouldn't be a bad idea to kill the breaker to the circuit your house-side outlet is on just to play it safe before attempting that. The ground doesn't run through any breakers so it will still be connected even with the breaker off. It's also not a bad idea to probe the grounds of your house to make sure there isn't voltage there before you go down that path. I'm lazy, and in favor of not shocking myself, so I just an outlet checker for that.

2 - Since I've never used a generator with a ground on it before, my gut feeling is "not very important", but... Seems like it's a good idea and I'll be upgrading mine to have that feature. For that matter, the house where I grew up and lived for 27 years didn't have grounded outlets, period, and I'm still here to tell the tale.

edit: I'm not a professional... at your own risk... etc...

 

[churchmouse]

In response to something member Clay Pigeon and I were having a somewhat heated discussion over I did an experiment today.
My neighbor just bought a small tub style freezer for his garage. I looked at the rating/info plate and it draws 1.5A RLA. Close to what CP stated his pulled.
I hooked the freezer to my small genny. 2200W peak. It started and ran the unit just fine. I also noted it is an R-600 system. Butane. These are very low draw. Start up is silly low compared to an older system.

So, if that is was CP was telling me he was running then yes, I believe him. But this unit is not very big at 24"sX24" by 18"s deep. Just a small freezer.
But I wanted to post this up in the open as to what I found. I stand corrected.

 

[woowoo2]

But I wanted to post this up in the open as to what I found. I stand corrected.

We never stop learning do we?

 

[churchmouse]

We never stop learning do we?

No sir. And tech is ever changing. The R-600 units are so very very different than what we are used to seeing.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I haven't read this entire thread, and I'm only just now beginning to think of getting a generator (hoping to get a transfer switch installed to basically plug in the whole house, and guessing I would use the breaker panel to control exactly what actually gets power to it.) My main concern would be our furnace (gas, but with electric fan and pilot), two refrigerator/freezers (no big chest freezer), well pump (220? volt - was on a 15 amp fuse though), tv/modem, and at least minimal lighting and a couple of outlets for laptops/cell phone charging, etc.. A/C would be nice, but I could get by without it - heat, not so much.

Would this one likely be large enough to do what I'm describing? 9000 W startup/7250 running, 13 hour run time at 50% load.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9000-...0e6a2990c32bd615ed29a3827ecbaaae53d34dd1ce6a0

 

[maxwelhse]

I haven't read this entire thread, and I'm only just now beginning to think of getting a generator (hoping to get a transfer switch installed to basically plug in the whole house, and guessing I would use the breaker panel to control exactly what actually gets power to it.) My main concern would be our furnace (gas, but with electric fan and pilot), two refrigerator/freezers (no big chest freezer), well pump (220? volt - was on a 15 amp fuse though), tv/modem, and at least minimal lighting and a couple of outlets for laptops/cell phone charging, etc.. A/C would be nice, but I could get by without it - heat, not so much.

Would this one likely be large enough to do what I'm describing? 9000 W startup/7250 running, 13 hour run time at 50% load.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9000-...0e6a2990c32bd615ed29a3827ecbaaae53d34dd1ce6a0

For your entire house just like normal? Probably not. For your A/C, absolutely not.

For just the stuff you listed, I think you'd be fine if you were smart about things. Might want to turn the furnace off while you're in the shower, for instance.

If you want to deep dive on this, look at the stickers on everything you want to power and see what power requirements they have. Stuff that just plugs in, you can use a kilowatt to measure. FYI, the price on those has increased by about 75% this week. I paid $20 for mine over the summer.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

For your entire house just like normal? Probably not. For your A/C, absolutely not.

For just the stuff you listed, I think you'd be fine if you were smart about things. Might want to turn the furnace off while you're in the shower, for instance.

If you want to deep dive on this, look at the stickers on everything you want to power and see what power requirements they have. Stuff that just plugs in, you can use a kilowatt to measure. FYI, the price on those has increased by about 75% this week. I paid $20 for mine over the summer.

Thanks for the reminder about the hot water. That's electric too. I could probably manage on one refrigerator/freezer if absolutely necessary too. Honestly, my power has never been out long enough for anything to be a worry (knock wood). Even when the electricians had me shut down over 8 hours yesterday I was okay, but then again, it was relatively warm outside and I wasn't running any water. I'm just wanting to be at least moderately prepared in a pinch.

 

[Trigger Time]

I haven't read this entire thread, and I'm only just now beginning to think of getting a generator (hoping to get a transfer switch installed to basically plug in the whole house, and guessing I would use the breaker panel to control exactly what actually gets power to it.) My main concern would be our furnace (gas, but with electric fan and pilot), two refrigerator/freezers (no big chest freezer), well pump (220? volt - was on a 15 amp fuse though), tv/modem, and at least minimal lighting and a couple of outlets for laptops/cell phone charging, etc.. A/C would be nice, but I could get by without it - heat, not so much.

Would this one likely be large enough to do what I'm describing? 9000 W startup/7250 running, 13 hour run time at 50% load.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9000-...0e6a2990c32bd615ed29a3827ecbaaae53d34dd1ce6a0

I have that exact one as a backup. It's a Honda clone. Very good generator for the money.
If you want A/C in power outages (I Do!), I recommend using smaller stand alone units or window units. Don't try to cool your whole house. You are wasting precious fuel unless you have a big diesel unit.
Just take the edge off during the day or at night for a couple hours at a time while you are also running your fridge and deep freezer motors.
Generator security is a factor at night though If you are running.

 

[maxwelhse]

Thanks for the reminder about the hot water. That's electric too. I could probably manage on one refrigerator/freezer if absolutely necessary too. Honestly, my power has never been out long enough for anything to be a worry (knock wood). Even when the electricians had me shut down over 8 hours yesterday I was okay, but then again, it was relatively warm outside and I wasn't running any water. I'm just wanting to be at least moderately prepared in a pinch.

If you have an electric water heater, your goose is basically cooked for having hot water on tap. I had electric at my previous house and it had 2 5000w elements in it (60 gallon). My plan was to disconnect one of the elements, pray it got up to temp with just one and that my 5500w genny would do it (and nothing else at the same time), then shut it off, turn the well pump on, jump in the shower and get it done as fast as possible.

Your refers require basically no power by contrast to any of the other stuff you've talked about (other than AC). If your water heater is a little elderly anyhow, and you already have gas in your house, I'd be much more tempted to spend your prepping money on a gas water heater rather than a HUGE generator and transfer switch setup. Get a new water heater, a modest genny + cords to set your stuff up to just be plugged into it, and roll with it until the budget grows. You can always supplement your preps with other preps along the way and make layers like a lot of us already do. I have a generator, but I also have a little cordless inverter and enough batteries to run my internet and laptop for 2 days. I'd like to get a monster sized pure sine wave inverter, and maybe a battery or two, so I can run the TV, a few lights, refers, etc, at night without any noise or run it off the vehicles if the generator ever goes down. The next tier of that would be some solar for the inverter setup, more batteries, etc.

So... My layers are: Genny, sissy inverter, and hopefully big inverter in the future.

If you have the cash to get a big gnarly generator, you can just skip to that, but 7500w I don't think is gonna cut it by just plugging it in and firing it up, as-is.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

If you have an electric water heater, your goose is basically cooked for having hot water on tap. I had electric at my previous house and it had 2 5000w elements in it (60 gallon). My plan was to disconnect one of the elements, pray it got up to temp with just one and that my 5500w genny would do it (and nothing else at the same time), then shut it off, turn the well pump on, jump in the shower and get it done as fast as possible.

Your refers require basically no power by contrast to any of the other stuff you've talked about (other than AC). If your water heater is a little elderly anyhow, and you already have gas in your house, I'd be much more tempted to spend your prepping money on a gas water heater rather than a HUGE generator and transfer switch setup. Get a new water heater, a modest genny + cords to set your stuff up to just be plugged into it, and roll with it until the budget grows. You can always supplement your preps with other preps along the way and make layers like a lot of us already do. I have a generator, but I also have a little cordless inverter and enough batteries to run my internet and laptop for 2 days. I'd like to get a monster sized pure sine wave inverter, and maybe a battery or two, so I can run the TV, a few lights, refers, etc, at night without any noise or run it off the vehicles if the generator ever goes down. The next tier of that would be some solar for the inverter setup, more batteries, etc.

So... My layers are: Genny, sissy inverter, and hopefully big inverter in the future.

If you have the cash to get a big gnarly generator, you can just skip to that, but 7500w I don't think is gonna cut it by just plugging it in and firing it up, as-is.

I'm a primitive camper, so if I have to deal with cold showers (I take baths in the lake), I could certainly do that. My only concern about running cords is that I"m going to have to have a door or window(s) open to run cords from the genny to all the appliances. That's why I want the transfer switch and be able to use the breaker panel to "allocate" where the power goes. I could survive without AC too as long as I can run a fan.

Thanks guys! This is giving me things to think about. Yesterday I just used a marine battery with power inverter and it kept both my laptops running all day with not much drain on the battery. I've used it to power tv and internet before, but it drained the battery pretty low after maybe 4 or 5 hours. Heck, I use that same setup when I go camping if it's going to be really hot to run a fan in the tent and be able to power a radio and charge cell phones. If the power starts running low, I just swap the battery with the one in the boat and run it around the lake for awhile to charge it back up.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I have that exact one as a backup. It's a Honda clone. Very good generator for the money.
If you want A/C in power outages (I Do!), I recommend using smaller stand alone units or window units. Don't try to cool your whole house. You are wasting precious fuel unless you have a big diesel unit.
Just take the edge off during the day or at night for a couple hours at a time while you are also running your fridge and deep freezer motors.
Generator security is a factor at night though If you are running.

I'd probably put a heavy cable and lock on the genny out on the deck. I'm not talking about zombie apocalypse here, where I'd have to worry about looters after all. If it got to that point, I'd probably camp out on the deck with my rifle!

 

[Trigger Time]

I'd probably put a heavy cable and lock on the genny out on the deck. I'm not talking about zombie apocalypse here, where I'd have to worry about looters after all. If it got to that point, I'd probably camp out on the deck with my rifle!

They'll push a running pos lawnmower right up to your genny and steal it now. I have a couple cheap motion sensors from harbor freight I can put around mine for a warning. A couple other things too but I don't want to self incriminate

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If you have an electric water heater, your goose is basically cooked for having hot water on tap. I had electric at my previous house and it had 2 5000w elements in it (60 gallon). My plan was to disconnect one of the elements, pray it got up to temp with just one and that my 5500w genny would do it (and nothing else at the same time), then shut it off, turn the well pump on, jump in the shower and get it done as fast as possible.

Your refers require basically no power by contrast to any of the other stuff you've talked about (other than AC). If your water heater is a little elderly anyhow, and you already have gas in your house, I'd be much more tempted to spend your prepping money on a gas water heater rather than a HUGE generator and transfer switch setup. Get a new water heater, a modest genny + cords to set your stuff up to just be plugged into it, and roll with it until the budget grows. You can always supplement your preps with other preps along the way and make layers like a lot of us already do. I have a generator, but I also have a little cordless inverter and enough batteries to run my internet and laptop for 2 days. I'd like to get a monster sized pure sine wave inverter, and maybe a battery or two, so I can run the TV, a few lights, refers, etc, at night without any noise or run it off the vehicles if the generator ever goes down. The next tier of that would be some solar for the inverter setup, more batteries, etc.

So... My layers are: Genny, sissy inverter, and hopefully big inverter in the future.

If you have the cash to get a big gnarly generator, you can just skip to that, but 7500w I don't think is gonna cut it by just plugging it in and firing it up, as-is.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought electric water heaters only ran one element at a time. I don’t remember the rhyme or reason right now.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

They'll push a running pos lawnmower right up to your genny and steal it now. I have a couple cheap motion sensors from harbor freight I can put around mine for a warning. A couple other things too but I don't want to self incriminate