Sig P220 and Wolf KaBoom

[drgnrobo]

WOW ,that stinks about your sig dude.I've used wolf ammo in my bushmaster(223/5.56)but it has a chromed chamber , now Ive got to check them all out as well

 

[homeless]

Customer service in Exeter does leave something to be desired as of late doesn't it? However I am told that despite the rough treatment, when something is their fault that they will take care of you. The problem with this is that in comparison to what Sig used to be both QA and CS wise, this is a big letdown. Good luck buddy.

 

[sjstill]

Almost all firearm manufacturers caution against reloads. Can't recall ever seeing any warn about steel-cased ammo.

There is a lot of horor stories about Wolf ammo. Hard to
prove, but many manufactures recomend not shooting
steel case ammo....ie.....Wolf

 

[OneBadV8]

DS Arms warns against it.

http://www.dsarms.com/ammowarn.asp

 

[insomnitec]

sarcasm?

Ya, name brand, brass ammo never KaBooms

I think that was sarcasm. At least, I hope it was.

 

[AuProspector]

Same Wolf lot number.

I purchased some of the same Wolf ammo from Ammotogo with the same lot number a few months ago.

I've shot about 800 round through a 1911 Colt. No problems thus far. I did notice that some of the rounds appeared to have a shorter overall length, however they shot ok.

I just checked a 1/2 box and the OAl looks to be ok. I'll check the rest.

Thanks for the heads-up.

AuProspector
NRA Lifer

 

[swmp9jrm]

I posted some info on the USACarry Forum, but forgot to come back here to post as well. About a week and a half ago, I put a box of the lot 1256 09 Wolf .45ACP I inspected a couple of weeks ago through my PT-1911. All rounds fired as expected, but in view of this thread and another over on the USACarry Forum I decided to inspect all the empty cases. I looked at all 50 rounds from the box - and found two rounds with significant splits. I contacted Wolf customer service about this, and they asked me to ship it back for inspection and evaluation. I'm waiting for a FedEx label from them to send back the 350 rounds I have left. I don't have anything against Wolf as a manufacturer, and I've shot many, many rounds of steel case Wolf rifle ammo. But, based on all of what's happened here to Mammynun with his P-220 and to the guy with the USP40, I have decided to quit using steel case ammo in my handguns. I've still got some 9mm TULA left to shoot, but rest assured that I will be inspecting all the spent cases until it's gone. And I won't be buying any more.

 

[level Joe]

Thats a nice Sig, I like the beaver tail without the rails. I know its only been 2 weeks but do you have an update from Sig CS yet?

 

[mammynun]

Thats a nice Sig, I like the beaver tail without the rails. I know its only been 2 weeks but do you have an update from Sig CS yet?

Actually, The Sig is back home but I'm not... so I haven't seen it yet.

Sig DID pay for shipping both ways, and did NOT charge me for anything that they may have done. I don't think there was anything wrong with it, but I wanted to be certain as I carry it often. Wolf sent me shipping labels for the rest of the ammo, and promised to send me replacements.
As it turned out, the round in question went to Sig with the P220; Wolf looked at the pictures and that was enough to show then that it was, in fact, their ammo. My wife hasn't opened the the Sig, so I don't know what they did yet, but I'm very satisfied with both companies response!

 

[bigmedicine]

The bottom line is that I feel horrible for your situation.

There are all sorts of stories about Wolf, but probably less of them overall than reload kaboom stories. The one thing to remember is that steel cased ammunition is hardly a new thing - a large number of US .45 ACP steel case ammo was used in WWII. Also, Germany used a bunch and the Japanese toyed with Aluminum ammo cases as well. Now - that hardly helps you out, but the focus should be on Wolf ammo alone. Any cartridge that has that degree of bullet setback is trouble waiting to happen.
Your story has made me really take my time when loading up mags - look, look, and then look again to make sure things are consistent.

 

[mammynun]

Got home to look at my Sig. The enclosed note states that they inspected and test fired, and all is well. They replaced the blown grip panel at no charge, as well as shipped my pistol (in both directions) on their dime. Total turnaround time was 12 days, one of which was New Years. I'm completely satisfied with Sig!

Wolf has the remaining rounds from lot 1273 09; it was shipped back on their dime too. I'll let you all know when I receive the replacement ammo.

Based on the response I got from both companies, I will continue to use their products. This was the second time I've had a weapon "blow up;" the first was an M249 SAW in the late 80's ('88 or '89?) which had nothing to do with Sig or Wolf. Nothing is perfect, so while I'd prefer that there not be a 3rd time, I think I have about the same odds with, say, Kahr and Hornaday as any other combo.

 

[swmp9jrm]

Glad to hear that both companies stepped up. I'm just getting ready to send back the Wolf I found the two split cases in. They were very responsive, and asked to have it sent back for evaluation. They sent a UPS label in just a few days and it will be going back tomorrow.

Maybe I'm a little more conservative, but I've decided to stop using steel case ammo in my semi-auto handguns. I've shot loads of steel case up to this point, but after seeing your kaboom, the splits I got, and some splits in some 40S&W posted over on USACarry, I'm just not comfortable with it any more. Steel's fine with me in my long guns. Still have a pretty good stash of TULA 9mm to go through, but then I'll stick to brass. Maybe false security, but I guess that's where I'll sit until I have a problem with THAT.

 

[mammynun]

I understand what you're saying, and agree for the most part. I guess I should clarify by saying I don't use steel cased ammo nearly as often as brass cased, and I never will.BUT if there's a really good deal on it and I "need" () some more ammo, I won't let this experience keep me from buying it. I will pay more attention when loading mag, regardless of ammo manufacturer from here on out.

 

[Amishman44]

Glad to hear they helped get it repaired!

 

[Dawall]

Sorry for your hand and damage to a great gun. Through the years I have seen many problems from the russian imported ammo in many calibers. I have seen many S&W sigmas and Ruger P95's barrels destroyed. I have found their shells to be very inconsistent with chamber pressures, speed, groupings and measurements when taken from box to box. If you had to fire this stuf I would definetly use full protection as always and a good quality steel frame gun. Great to hear you got your Sig back OK.

 

[mettle]

This is just the facts as I'm not really sure how I feel about this yet.

12/26/09 I go to Henryville to shoot. I take my P220 Compact, Taurus 24/7 9mm and PT1911. Finding .45ACP around here is not easy, so I scored 500 rounds of Wolf from ammunition to go. I also had Blazer and some WWB. I bought the P220 new on 10/27/09, it has around 1000 rounds through it, the PT1911 has approx 2000. Switching between al 3 pistols, I get to my 9th 8 round mag in the Sig, and KaBoom:

Emailed Wolf on 12/26, they replied today offering to replace the remaining ammo at no cost to me, and want to know what "the gunsmith" says.

Talked to Sig this morning on the phone. They do not want to see pictures, they want me to send it in at my expense for repair.

I believe that it was an ammo issue, and I like that Wolf want to test my ammo and replace what I have left (around 100 rounds, I still have to look). While I'm pretty sure that the Sig had nothing to do with the KaBoom, the way that Sig handled it makes me wonder what benefit a person derives from purchasing a Sig over any other quality firearm. At any rate, I buy spare part for all my firearms, so I replaced the trigger bar spring and ordered a grip panel from Brownells for <$20, which is about a 1/3 of what it would have cost me just to send it back to Sig. BTW, the case was stuck in the chamber pretty well; I tried tapping it out with a dowel and the bottom came off. I don't have a .45 case extractor (shoulda ordered one from Brownells! Doh!), but a jag and a patch with Rem oil around the case got it out.

Like I said, Sig CS let a bad taste in my mouth... but I may have had unrealistic expectations as I've never had to deal with them before. I'm still on the fence.

No offense to you, or any meaning towards you; I'm just not shooting Brown Bear or Wolf. I've dealt with low pressure in wolf in cold weather, hard, hard hard primers in Brown Bear-- to the point that the ejected round scares me, as it has a DEEP primer strike and it still didn't touch off. I'm just gonna buy 'better' stuff from now on.

 

[mettle]

GLAD you are OK!

 

[littletommy]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, glad your okay and your gun was repaired. I was at the Henryville range that same day, I think.

 

[one more]

Read the thread and glad that you are OK and that everything worked out the way it should have!