Scope adjustment difficulty

[doddg]

Pardon this question, perhaps this is too simple, but.........
I don't know whether this is an issue b/c of my old eyes & it can't be remedied but here is what is going on.

With my Hawke 3-9 scope with parallax, I can't get the fine focus for both the reticle crosshairs to be dark enough to see them & see the 7/8" target with multiple circles inside of it at 50 yds.
If I adjust the fine focus to be able to see the crosshairs well, the circles in the 7/8" targets are blurry.
If I adjust the fine focus to be able to see the circles clearly, the crosshairs don't show up well (too faint).
This is especially irritating when using 7/8" targets, or even smaller with rifles even at only 50 yds.

I've discovered if I have a parallax adjustment on the scope, if I turn the distance up from 50' all the way up past 100 yds, past 200 yds, past 300 yds to the infinity setting.
That helps a little, but even then the target is not sharp.

I have to see the crosshairs dark enough or I'm really lost, but I sure would like to see the "circles" within the 7/8" circles.
On other scopes I don't have this.
I'm starting to take notes on the different scopes to try to find out if it is just the scopes that have a parallax that I experience this.

 

[gmcttr]

Your scope most likely has an ocular (eyepiece) adjustment. It is used to focus the reticle while the parallax adjustment is used to focus on the target.

If you don't have the user's manual, look it up on Hawke's website.

To adjust the eyepiece, look through it at a well lit light colored wall. If the reticle isn't in focus, turn the ring at the very back end of the scope one way or the other until is is. Do not stare at it while focusing or your eye will adapt and give you a false focus. Keep looking away and then back at the reticle while focusing. Once this is set you do not adjust it again unless your eyesight changes.

The parallax/focus adjustment is the only one you use at the range and the reticle should stay in focus.

 

[marvin02]

Hawke has the manuals online, if you don't have one.

Is this your scope (if it is the download link for the manual is on that page)

Vantage 3-9x40 AO Mil Dot

An extensive range of scopes to suit all calibres and disciplines. All Vantage riflescopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations. Capped Low-Profile Turrets. 1 Inch Mono-Tube Chassis. 11 Layer Fully Multi-Coated Lenses. High Torque Zoom Ring. Fast Focus Eyebell

us.hawkeoptics.com

Possibly helpful video:

 

[doddg]

Hawke has the manuals online, if you don't have one.

Is this your scope (if it is the download link for the manual is on that page)

Vantage 3-9x40 AO Mil Dot

An extensive range of scopes to suit all calibres and disciplines. All Vantage riflescopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations. Capped Low-Profile Turrets. 1 Inch Mono-Tube Chassis. 11 Layer Fully Multi-Coated Lenses. High Torque Zoom Ring. Fast Focus Eyebell

us.hawkeoptics.com

Possibly helpful video:

No, mine is nothing like that.
I'll try that link, thanks!

 

[doddg]

Your scope most likely has an ocular (eyepiece) adjustment. It is used to focus the reticle while the parallax adjustment is used to focus on the target.

If you don't have the user's manual, look it up on Hawke's website.

To adjust the eyepiece, look through it at a well lit light colored wall. If the reticle isn't in focus, turn the ring at the very back end of the scope one way or the other until is is. Do not stare at it while focusing or your eye will adapt and give you a false focus. Keep looking away and then back at the reticle while focusing. Once this is set you do not adjust it again unless your eyesight changes.

The parallax/focus adjustment is the only one you use at the range and the reticle should stay in focus.

Thanks, gmcttr, always appreciate your practical input.
I remember doing that when I first started with scopes, & it sounds like I need to get back to the basics again.

If I'm following you correctly, this is my question:
The parallax/focus adjustment has settings from about 25, 50, 75, 100, up to 300 or 350 until you reach the infinity symbol.

Are you saying to ignore that & just turn it to when it is the best focus for the target your looking at through the eyepiece?
This is how I ended up finding out that by turning the parallax all the way up to infinity, the target would be in better focus, putting it on the correct distance was not working for me.

 

[jaymark6655]

Basically the ocular focus, use this first on a white wall and focus the cross hairs. Once that is done, you can tape that in place. GMCTTR's method works best with a friend adjusting the focus while you keep you eye close until you open breifly and then tell him better or worse and then close again to avoid the lens in your eye adapting to the bad focus. Your eye is powerful and can correct a lot. The parallax adjustment is used to focus the target onto the same plane as the crosshairs (removing parallax). The 25, 50, 75 marks are useful, but can be a little off even on high end scopes. Best bet is to bring the target into focus because then you know its on the same plane as the cross hairs since you used the ocular (eyepiece) to focus those for your eye. Also it should be at this point that you can shift you head slightly without moving the rifle and the point of aim should not change. If it does, parallax is not quite right.

This is helpful if you take your head off the rifle between shots, that way if placement isn't exact the next shot, parallax should cause you to change your point of aim without realizing it. With scopes without parallax adjustments, it best to break cheek weld between shots when trying to get a group or sight the rifle in.

 

[gmcttr]

...If I'm following you correctly, this is my question:
The parallax/focus adjustment has settings from about 25, 50, 75, 100, up to 300 or 350 until you reach the infinity symbol.

Are you saying to ignore that & just turn it to when it is the best focus for the target your looking at through the eyepiece?...

I adjust them to be focused to my vision but that is usually fairly close to the yardage markings.

Do you set it at infinity to focus at 100 yards WITH the objective correctly focused on the reticle? Set the reticle focus first and then see where the parallax adjustment brings it into focus.

There's always the possibility that you need to stop buying guns for awhile and save for high(er) quality optics to aid in your shooting advancement.

 

[doddg]

I adjust them to be focused to my vision but that is usually fairly close to the yardage markings.

Do you set it at infinity to focus at 100 yards WITH the objective correctly focused on the reticle? Set the reticle focus first and then see where the parallax adjustment brings it into focus.

There's always the possibility that you need to stop buying guns for awhile and save for high(er) quality optics to aid in your shooting advancement.

Haven't shot any rifles at 100 yds for months now.
I was told to go back to 25 yds, & learn the craft, but that was too boring, but I did go back to 50 yds, which has been sufficiently humbling & exasperating.

I have wondered about how much of my inconsistent performance is my scopes & how much of it it me not knowing what I'm doing & how much of it is my glasses and/or eyes with my Nikon & Hawke scopes scopes I'm using.
I've also used an inexpensive Barska scope on the Savage FV the previous owner had on it & it shot fine for me.
Also had a cheap BSA that did well for me on an American Ruger I had for a spell.

But, shooting at only 50 yds I can't imagine needing anything more since Nikon & Hawke scopes are supposed to be fine for even more than 100 yds.
I do have an Athlon that is supposed to be a better scope, but I haven't put it on anything yet, saving it for use at 100 yds.

 

[wtburnette]

Haven't shot any rifles at 100 yds for months now.
I was told to go back to 25 yds, & learn the craft, but that was too boring, but I did go back to 50 yds, which has been sufficiently humbling & exasperating.

I have wondered about how much of my inconsistent performance is my scopes & how much of it it me not knowing what I'm doing & how much of it is my glasses and/or eyes with my Nikon & Hawke scopes scopes I'm using.
I've also used an inexpensive Barska scope on the Savage FV the previous owner had on it & it shot sell for me.
Also had a cheap BSA that did well for me on an American Ruger I had for a spell.

But, shooting at only 50 yds I can't imagine needing anything more since Nikon & Hawke scopes are supposed to be fine for even more than 100 yds.
I do have an Athlon that is supposed to be better but I haven't put it on anything yet, saving it for use at 100 yds.

I don't use my 3x9 scope for anything past 25 yards. That's just not enough for my eyes. I have a Vortex Diamondback 6x24x50 on one gun and a Vortex Diamondback 4x12x40 on another. I can use both fine at 50 yards, but can only use the 6x24x50 at 100 yards and see well enough for any precision. Your eyes may be very different, but even when you're able to get the scope picture as clear as you want, you might not have enough magnification for it to work as well as you want for precision groups.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Sounds like doddg might need to take a road trip to visit in person with Alan Alcorn (A&A Optics) to learn from the scope master. Scope adjustments are much easier to explain in person than by written word.

 

[doddg]

I don't use my 3x9 scope for anything past 25 yards. That's just not enough for my eyes. I have a Vortex Diamondback 6x24x50 on one gun and a Vortex Diamondback 4x12x40 on another. I can use both fine at 50 yards, but can only use the 6x24x50 at 100 yards and see well enough for any precision. Your eyes may be very different, but even when you're able to get the scope picture as clear as you want, you might not have enough magnification for it to work as well as you want for precision groups.

Maybe that explains alot in applying your experience to my own trifocaled eyes.
Thanks again for taking the time.
Your info is encouraging that I might be able to shoot effectively (by my standards) at 50 yds & enjoy shooting at 100 yds.

 

[wtburnette]

50 yards is my sweet spot right now until I get the basics down better. Then we'll see about 100.

 

[doddg]

I have been trying to read about parallax adjustments to learn the terminology & be able to be able to ask the right questions & then understand the answers.
I don't have a frame of reference, a schema to attach this new learning so as to be able to absorb it in order to digest it.

This simple statement seems to sum up:
"Frankly if you're trying for target shots at 50 or 100 yards you want a 16x or 24x scope, maybe more.
You also want a scope that adjusts for parallax.
Don't skimp on the scope since you'll be looking through it a lot."

 

[johntheplinker]

Since you are wearing trifocals it may help to shoot using just plain old safety glasses. Got a feeling the different areas of your specs are causing you some issues.

 

[55fairlane]

hawke scopes are hit or miss on there quality. Most of the time it is a miss. Scrap that hawke and get a better optic

 

[doddg]

Since you are wearing trifocals it may help to shoot using just plain old safety glasses. Got a feeling the different areas of your specs are causing you some issues.

I have always wondered about that.
I even bought extra glasses the Dr. thought would work for shooting but they are for shooting handguns where I need to see the front sight & the target w/o having to crank my neck up too much.

I have tried using glasses with just 1 low magnification on them to try to eliminate any issues of having 3 lenses might cause.
That has it's own issues also.

 

[doddg]

hawke scopes are hit or miss on there quality. Most of the time it is a miss. Scrap that hawke and get a better optic

Oh my!
I just let my Nikon scope go with a rifle I sold.
Sounds like I should have let a Hawke go & kept the Nikon.
I have 4 Hawke scopes on everything else (three 3-9 & one 4-12), with one Athlon for backup.

 

[55fairlane]

Oh my!
I just let my Nikon scope go with a rifle I sold.
Sounds like I should have let a Hawke go & kept the Nikon.
I have 4 Hawke scopes on everything else (three 3-9 & one 4-12), with one Athlon for backup.

There are better optics than nikon. Vortex or better yet, drop the optics and learn marksmanship. Learn to shoot thru the irons. Learn to shoot with a sling.....

 

[doddg]

There are better optics than nikon. Vortex or better yet, drop the optics and learn marksmanship. Learn to shoot thru the irons. Learn to shoot with a sling.....

Shoot through the irons?
I'm afraid it is decades too late for that.
Never owned an optic till 2 years ago b/c I had to quit shooting rifles since I couldn't see rear sights, front sights or the target.
3 strikes & I was out.
Then I discovered optics & started shooting rifles again.
Now I have them on every rifle & half my handguns.
There would be no marksmanship w/o optics.
I could get another hobby, b/c learning marksmanship with eyes that can't see sights w/o optics is not an option.

 

[Twangbanger]

Shoot through the irons?
I'm afraid it is decades to late for that.
Never owned an optic till 2 years ago b/c I had to quit shooting rifles since I couldn't see rear sights, front sights or the target.
3 strikes & I was out.
Then I discovered optics & started shooting rifles again.
Now I have them on every rifle & half my handguns.
There would be no marksmanship w/o optics.
I could get another hobby, b/c learning marksmanship with eyes that can't see sights w/o optics is not an option.

Optics are a career-extender for many shooters.

What Athlon do you have? I have a 4x16 Talos mildot, and believe it or not it's a good scope at $180. They are a good value relative to the cost. It was the cheapest side-parallax adjuster on the market when I bought it. I once won a match with it shooting against a field that included $2,500 scopes, so I'd wager your Athlon is not going to be limiting you in any way.

If you know your eyes are the biggest issue, going and blowing a bunch of money on scopes is not the solution. You don't need super vision, just learn to use what you have.

What the troops were trying to tell you above, is use the eyepiece to adjust focus on the reticle. Use parallax to focus on the target. However, focusing on the target is not super-critical. A rifle scope is not supposed to be a spotting scope. You are not supposed to be able to see your hits on paper through it (unless maybe you're a benchrest competitor). In fact, the best long range target shooters often dial back the parallax on their scopes to focus in the air partway to the target, so they can read heat mirage and wind patterns to pick the timing of their shot. They can execute excellent marksmanship without being able to see the target clearly through the scope. You just need to have a clear idea of where the reticle is in relation to it.

Dial the scope back to a power level where you can see the target and reticle "in relation to" each other, because that's what allows you to call your shots and be a better marksman. Ask yourself on every shot: "What direction was the reticle moving when the shot broke?" You should know. You should be able to say, "That shot broke with the reticle at 3 o'clock on the target, about halfway out and moving toward the center." That doesn't mean a higher-dollar scope with higher magnification. That means "paying attention." It is better to be shooting with a $39 4x Tasco rimfire scope, and know exactly how your reticle was moving when the shot broke, than have a $400 scope that allows you to see insects on the target paper, and not be calling shots. Because knowing that reticle movement at the shot break is what helps you understand where your shot went and why, and whether you need to adjust your scope, or just work harder on the shooting.