S&W top break hand

[Taeverling]

Hello everyone, I have a s&w top break in 32 s&w short. I believe it may be a 5th model. It's in good shape but out of time. I'm having a hard time finding a hand that has enough meat on it to alter and put it back in time. I was wondering if anyone knew any tricks to make the original hand work? I believe it's hardened so I don't know how I could draw it out or make it thicker to compensate for the missing metal.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Did you check Numrich?

 

[Taeverling]

Did you check Numrich?

Yes, unfortunately everywhere I've checked may have had some but were all out of stock.

 

[Born2vette]

@Leadeye may be able offer a suggestion.

 

[Taeverling]

@Leadeye may be able offer a suggestion.

Okay, thanks for the tip, I will shoot a message to him.

 

[Leadeye]

Like many old gun parts we often find they are made from unobtainium. Getting a "for parts" revolver off GB might be a solution if the price is low enough as S&W made a number of these guns.

I think you could probably stretch that hand some by hammering it on an anvil, it's something I do with worn hands on old guns and have yet to have one crack. There's a lot of hitting and then reassembly checking, as you want to bring it just up to time and not go over.

You can always anneal the hand then reharden if the metal seems hard to you. Nothing complex about those old steels.

 

[Taeverling]

Like many old gun parts we often find they are made from unobtainium. Getting a "for parts" revolver off GB might be a solution if the price is low enough as S&W made a number of these guns.

I think you could probably stretch that hand some by hammering it on an anvil, it's something I do with worn hands on old guns and have yet to have one crack. There's a lot of hitting and then reassembly checking, as you want to bring it just up to time and not go over.

You can always anneal the hand then reharden if the metal seems hard to you. Nothing complex about those old steels.

Okay, thanks for all the information. Another thing, is it the height or the thickness of a hand that makes the most impact on timing?

 

[Leadeye]

For all revolvers it's the length from the center of the point of attachment to the end.

 

[Taeverling]

For all revolvers it's the length from the center of the point of attachment to the end.

Alrighty, that cleared that up. I never was 100% certain which was crucial.

 

[BigRed]

I learned some things here....again!

 

[Leadeye]

Alrighty, that cleared that up. I never was 100% certain which was crucial.

Stretching hands in revolvers to bring them into time I call "wack and fit".

 

[Taeverling]

Stretching hands in revolvers to bring them into time I call "wack and fit".

Ha ha, well I will give it a try this weekend.

 

[Bosshoss]

Ok let me first say that I have never worked on a top break so I'm not sure how different they are than a hand eject model .
I do S&W revolver action work and repairs. While I mostly do modern revolvers I have worked on some that were over a hundred years old.
On modern(last hundred years) S&W revolvers the timing is controlled by the width(thickness) of the hand. S&W and the aftermarket offer "oversized hands" that are used to correct late timing. All these hands are thicker than a stock hand but the same length.
On some guns the hand slot has to widened to fit the oversized hand.
Ok some old school tricks is to heat the hand half way between the tip and pivot point until it is red and very slightly bend the hand. it only takes about .005 to .010 to get what you need depending on how bad (late) the timing is. DO NOT OVERHEAT the tip as it will soften and won't last.
If the gun is just slightly late you can also peen the ratchet teeth and swell them oversize to fix the problem.
Worst case some guns that are shooter grade and don't have collector value and no parts available I have centerpunched the ratchets and really swelled them and then retimed the gun. Ratchet look bad as it has centerpunched marks but the gun is now shootable and the great grandkids can shoot great, great, grandpa's old gun again.
I'm not sure about a break top but I would think the width of hand would control the amount it turns the ratchets just like the modern ones.
Leadeye knows way more about the old stuff than I do but just throwing this out there to think about.

 

[55fairlane]

https://everygunpart.com/manufacturer/smith_wesson several top break parts guns here....you might get lucky

Option #2 find a micro TiG weld shop and have them build up the surface.....

 

[Leadeye]

I've bent the hand slightly to get it to fit the window better on a Colt 1878 where wear had opened the window some, but the 1878 is somewhat unique as it has no cylinder stop. Sal Lanara tig welds these back to spec, but he's got super skills with 1877s and 1878s. Not much metal at the end of the hand on the S&W top breaks large or small.

Here's an S&W top break with it's big brother above and an 1878 below.

 

[Leadeye]

Ha ha, well I will give it a try this weekend.

Go slow and try to hit it in the middle, that part really never gets into the window where like Bosshoss say if it was too thin it could wobble inside the window and possibly affect time. Here you can see on the large top break how small the top of the hand is and how close the fit is in the window.

 

[Leadeye]

There's a replacement hand for sale on Ebay. It's for a 38 but I would imagine they are the same for 32.

 

[Taeverling]

There's a replacement hand for sale on Ebay. It's for a 38 but I would imagine they are the same for 32.

Ok let me first say that I have never worked on a top break so I'm not sure how different they are than a hand eject model .
I do S&W revolver action work and repairs. While I mostly do modern revolvers I have worked on some that were over a hundred years old.
On modern(last hundred years) S&W revolvers the timing is controlled by the width(thickness) of the hand. S&W and the aftermarket offer "oversized hands" that are used to correct late timing. All these hands are thicker than a stock hand but the same length.
On some guns the hand slot has to widened to fit the oversized hand.
Ok some old school tricks is to heat the hand half way between the tip and pivot point until it is red and very slightly bend the hand. it only takes about .005 to .010 to get what you need depending on how bad (late) the timing is. DO NOT OVERHEAT the tip as it will soften and won't last.
If the gun is just slightly late you can also peen the ratchet teeth and swell them oversize to fix the problem.
Worst case some guns that are shooter grade and don't have collector value and no parts available I have centerpunched the ratchets and really swelled them and then retimed the gun. Ratchet look bad as it has centerpunched marks but the gun is now shootable and the great grandkids can shoot great, great, grandpa's old gun again.
I'm not sure about a break top but I would think the width of hand would control the amount it turns the ratchets just like the modern ones.
Leadeye knows way more about the old stuff than I do but just throwing this out there to think about.

Thanks for the info, I have put a few smith's back in time with oversized hands, I really wish they made them for old top breaks... I did think about heating it as you mentioned but am afraid it will soften it. I'm not very good with a torch unfortunately...

 

[Leadeye]

I'll defer to Bosshoss here as most of my work is on Colts and looking at the back of the ratchet on the top break you can see how the set up is the same as a hand ejector. The width at the end is important in moving that ratchet the final distance.

Best of luck, it's always good to get an old gun running again.

 

[Taeverling]

I'll defer to Bosshoss here as most of my work is on Colts and looking at the back of the ratchet on the top break you can see how the set up is the same as a hand ejector. The width at the end is important in moving that ratchet the final distance.

I understand, the hands for the 38s are different from the 32s. They look different in height and shape unfortunately. I believe from the way it looks on mine that if the hand was maybe .010 thicker It would put it in time, educated guess of course.