Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

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    jamil

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    I'm pretty sure DoggyDaddy was riled up about something I said in another thread and it bled over here. Hence the ad hominem NPR comment.
    (Sorry DD if I got too active in that other thread)


    Warring nation states should be punished, but if that punishment is too harsh (deserved for not), you end up hurting your own nation in the long run.

    I was listening to (not an NPR) podcast and the guest was making the point that we should have helped rebuild Russia after the USSR collapse...
    Ah, it was Hardcore History Addendum and the guest was Max Brooks.
    While I agree with the ideas here, I'm not so sure we could have helped rebuild Russia after the Soviet collapse. But we definitely could have kept our promises about NATO.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    That sounds justifiable. But it's a reasonable question to ask. If better terms were sought, would the conditions exist that allowed Hitler to rise to power?
    Maybe, maybe not. I mean, conditions were pretty damn good here and yet Biden was able to "rise to power".
     

    jamil

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    Maybe, maybe not. I mean, conditions were pretty damn good here and yet Biden was able to "rise to power".

    I don't know about Biden, but maybe the DNC anyway. I still don't think Biden is running the show. Anyway, that left wing rise to power has been in the works for decades and while normal people were just making a life for themselves in a free country, ideologues were quietly taking over Hollywood, the universities, and the news media, and then the institutional dominoes fell. So here we are. It wasn't one man rising.
     

    Thor

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    Not trying to justify Russia at all, but this does seem a little unfair to them. How do you think we would react if Russia wanted to form an alliance with countries that are right on our doorstep and do things like station weapons and missiles in them? Wait, seems like that's happened before...
    NATO is a defense pact...not an offense pact. It's a group of countries that say they will help defend each other if attacked not that they will dog pile on to attack anyone else. Russia can only feel threatened because they intended to attack the countries that joined the defense pact and now it will cost them more.
     

    BugI02

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    That sounds justifiable. But it's a reasonable question to ask. If better terms were sought, would the conditions exist that allowed Hitler to rise to power?
    You and the others of similar opinion ONLY know that the harsh conditions imposed on Germany after The One led to The Two

    No one contemporary with the decisions made to impose such had any idea about such follow-on effects

    Recall that another name for The One was 'the war to end all wars', and we know how that played out
     

    jamil

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    You and the others of similar opinion ONLY know that the harsh conditions imposed on Germany after The One led to The Two

    No one contemporary with the decisions made to impose such had any idea about such follow-on effects

    Recall that another name for The One was 'the war to end all wars', and we know how that played out
    No doubt. Hindsight is 20/20. That has nothing to do with saying one probably lead to the other after the fact. It's just stating that looking back it probably had some effect. Which is why it's good to look at the lessons history has told us so that we don't repeat mistakes.

    Regardless though, even looking at history, best case it's a judgment call. You just want the people making the judgements to know what the **** they're doing. Anyone claiming the one in charge of such judgements now knows what he's doing is full of ****.
     

    asevans

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    I think people should be worried about the defeat of the United States instead of the defeat of Russia.
     
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