Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[BigMoose]

Russian over inflation of bleeding for a few hundred meters. "Claims"

 

[smokingman]

Russian over inflation of bleeding for a few hundred meters. "Claims"

Much like Ukrainian "claims" or US claims. It is really just noise and propaganda to anyone not actually involved in the fighting. At best entertainment and a distraction for the masses so they will ignore things like inflation,covid vax deaths,political corruption at home,our open border,and the loss of the dollar as the world reserve currency...or the 110 billion spent so far.

but I digress.

I am sure "our" side will be victorious and we will defeat the evil that is Putin and welcome our WEF overlords and one world order. MMM,these bugs are great,who needs popcorn when we can eat bugs!

Ok. Yea, that was a bit over the top.

I will avoid this thread for a bit. I could really care less what happens in Ukraine,Europe,or even Asia. I care about just one country this one. I do not think supporting Ukraine does anything that will improve the lives of anyone in the USA.

 

[actaeon277]

The leopard and the M1 use the same gun the leopard has a longer barrel. (Some say the Leopard is better) It really comes down to the crew in NATO tests.



NATO pact ammo interchange includes tank mortars and artillery.

The same gun, or just both 120mm?

 

[Wolfhound]

The same gun, or just both 120mm?

It’s a German design produced under license for the M1. Similar to the Chobham armor which was designed by the British and also used on the M1 tank.

Rheinmetall 120 mm gun

The Rheinmetall 120 mm gun is a smoothbore tank gun designed and produced by the West German Rheinmetall-DeTec AG company, developed in response to Soviet advances in armor technology and development of new armored threats. Production began in 1974, with the first version of the gun, known as...

military-history.fandom.com

 

[BigMoose]

@BigMoose is right!

If you have ever witnessed a Armor unit spread out its tons of support guys. The Abrams will be stripped down export versions. No better than the Germans tanks.

What a nightmare of logistics T series Russian stuff, German stuff, American stuff, French stuff.

How would you keep up with just spare parts?

Western Armies use a spare part system with different levels of maintenance and logistics.

Eastern Armies use a on demand system and make spare parts in the field. This developed in WW2 due to supply lines.

 

[actaeon277]

Abrams was designed for quick dashes between prepared fighting positions.
Fuel efficiency was a secondary consideration. (russia invading Europe)

 

[DadSmith]

Well or all those ex USMC M1A1 tanks that lacked all the new Army gadgets,

Where the M1A3's ever built or just the prototype?

 

[BigMoose]

Where the M1A3's ever built or just the prototype?

Anything past an M1A2 is marked with SEP designations. (System Enhancement Package)

There is an M1A2 SEP, M1A2 SEPv2, M1A2 SEPv3 now.

The ex USMC tanks going to Ukraine (some have already been sold to Poland) is the M1A1 FEP. A USMC specific upgrade. Which makes them a little different then the Army tanks.

 

[actaeon277]

Anything past an M1A2 is marked with SEP designations. (System Enhancement Package)

There is an M1A2 SEP, M1A2 SEPv2, M1A2 SEPv3 now.

The ex USMC tanks going to Ukraine (some have already been sold to Poland) is the M1A1 FEP. A USMC specific upgrade. Which makes them a little different then the Army tanks.

And if I remember right, wasn't the Marines getting rid of their tanks?

 

[BigMoose]

And if I remember right, wasn't the Marines getting rid of their tanks?

Past tense, they parked them, and turned them into the Army. The army doesn't want them around... due the difference in the Marine systems in the USMC version.

 

[actaeon277]

Past tense, they parked them, and turned them into the Army. The army doesn't want them around... due the difference in the Marine systems in the USMC version.

probably why they're giving marine tanks

 

[BigMoose]

Still, I can't wait for the meme videos of Ukrainians playing with the intercom "phone" on the back of the tank.

If there is ever a defining characteristic of a US tank. Is is the Intercom "Phone" on the back. This is so the infantry can come up to the back of the tank and talk to the tank crew.

Pretty much every US tank made since WW2 had had one. Even the new... it really isn't a light tank, but its really a light tank (MPF).. has one.

It became a thing when tankers bolted field phones in ammo boxes on the back during the Bougainville islands campaign..

 

[BigMoose]

Well and then there is this........

 

[Libertarian01]

Some thoughts from Mr. Zeihan.

 

[Wolfhound]

Where the M1A3's ever built or just the prototype?

They are currently developing the M1X. It is a major redesign.

General Dynamics Land Systems Unveils AbramsX Main Battle Tank for Future War Into 2050 - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

General Dynamics Land Systems Unveils Abrams X for Future War

warriormaven.com

 

[DadSmith]

They are currently developing the M1X. It is a major redesign.

General Dynamics Land Systems Unveils AbramsX Main Battle Tank for Future War Into 2050 - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

General Dynamics Land Systems Unveils Abrams X for Future War

warriormaven.com

Found this.

 

[Wolfhound]

Found this.

I found it interesting that the new design puts all three crewmembers down in the hull. It also uses an auto loader in the low profile turret.

 

[Sylvain]

Still, I can't wait for the meme videos of Ukrainians playing with the intercom "phone" on the back of the tank.

If there is ever a defining characteristic of a US tank. Is is the Intercom "Phone" on the back. This is so the infantry can come up to the back of the tank and talk to the tank crew.

Pretty much every US tank made since WW2 had had one. Even the new... it really isn't a light tank, but its really a light tank (MPF).. has one.

It became a thing when tankers bolted field phones in ammo boxes on the back during the Bougainville islands campaign..

I have seen that in various tank museums.

I always wondered why other countries don't include phones like that on their tanks ... seems like a good idea.

But on the other hand that might be the most dangerous "phone call" of your life!
You're using a 60 ton phone booth that can run you over.
You need to stand right behind the track ... not knowing if the driver know you're there.
And they don't have rear view mirrors or fancy reverse sensors like on modern cars.

 

[BigMoose]

I have seen that in various tank museums.
I always wondered why other countries don't include phones like that on their tanks ... seems like a good idea.

But on the other hand that might be the most dangerous "phone call" of your life!
You're using a 60 ton phone booth that can run you over.
You need to stand right behind the track ... not knowing if the driver know you're there.
And they don't have rear view mirrors or fancy reverse sensors like on modern cars.

Well the newer stuff now has cameras all around.

But the US has made them work. I guess if you know thee are dismounts around, you know to be careful about backing up.

 

[Sylvain]

Well the newer stuff now has cameras all around.

But the US has made them work. I guess if you know thee are dismounts around, you know to be careful about backing up.

I guess in the military if you stopped doing "dangerous things that could get you killed if not made carefully" then you wouldn't be doing much.

Maybe they are less used that before now with wireless headsets and modern radio equipment.

Do you know if they are only used as an intercom to talk to the driver/commander, or if it can be used as a giant walkie talkie to talk to other vehicles?

Maybe they can place collect calls to their family ...