Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

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  • smokingman

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    I'm told that the Russians are advancing and the Ukrainian military are having casualties from 100-400 a day.
    I cannot prove this so take it as rumor unless something factual is provided.
    Keep your eyes and ears open.

    Edit:
    Also Germany isn't going to send any leopard 2's until America sends Abrams.
     

    BroodXI

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    Looks like we're sending a battalion of Abrams to Zelensky. Guess that means all the Logistics and support that are needed as well. It may be starting boys and girls.
     

    smokingman

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    "The Doomsday Clock is currently set at 90 seconds to midnight. It had been at 100 seconds to midnight since 2020, and didn't change in either 2021 or 2022."

     

    Sylvain

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    Looks like we're sending a battalion of Abrams to Zelensky. Guess that means all the Logistics and support that are needed as well. It may be starting boys and girls.
    I'm not sure why they need US tanks.
    Ukraine is getting around 80 Leopard 2 tanks from various countries in Europe (over a dozen use the Leopard 2).
    There are close to 2,500 Leopard 2 in service all over Europe.

    The Leopard is the Glock of tanks in Europe. Plenty or places to train on how to use it, spare parts etc .

    334-why-leopard-tanks-are-extremely-important-to-ukraine.png


    And more are being purchased and built each month.

    1250.jpg


    It's easier to train everybody on the same platform, to have the same spare parts etc.


    Zelensky says he wants 300 tanks, he could easily get 300 Leopard already in Europe.
     

    Leadeye

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    I'm not sure why they need US tanks.
    Ukraine is getting around 80 Leopard 2 tanks from various countries in Europe (over a dozen use the Leopard 2).
    There are close to 2,500 Leopard 2 in service all over Europe.

    The Leopard is the Glock of tanks in Europe. Plenty or places to train on how to use it, spare parts etc .

    334-why-leopard-tanks-are-extremely-important-to-ukraine.png


    And more are being purchased and built each month.

    1250.jpg


    It's easier to train everybody on the same platform, to have the same spare parts etc.


    Zelensky says he wants 300 tanks, he could easily get 300 Leopard already in Europe.

    Makes good sense, having one tank type helps a lot with the training and logistics. It's not like we aren't already contributing a lot of other hardware.

    Every day makes me feel more like this will be another Afghanistan down the road where we spend enough money to put Walmart on the moon and end up with nothing.
     

    Sylvain

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    I assume the only reason why 'merica is sending only 31 tanks (off the 6,000 plus in service) is to get Germany to give tanks.

    As always most countries in Europe are waiting for the US to make the first move.

    It's more like a green light for other countries to give tanks.
    Hopefully Ukraine could easily get 300 European tanks.

    Of course I'm no tank expert. Maybe 31 tanks is a lot and could change everything on the battlefield. :dunno:

    It might take 3 to 6 months to train the crews though.
    So they will come into play months from now ... and with rookie crews.
     

    BigMoose

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    The problem with the M1, is its Gas Turbine... it has been the major bottleneck.

    Ohh my goodness does this thing suck down fuel.. its NUTS.
    For every M1 Abrams, there are 9 hemtt trucks following it around trying to keep the damn thing fed. Its not just sending the Tank. Its committing to send the Tank, and the entire MASSIVE separate logistical structure for the M1 Abrams.

    In US service the Abrams uses JP8. Something not in Ukraine. It can burn #2 Diesel. But we will see if it can deal with the cheap fuel fed to Russian T series tanks. It may be better to throw the Russian grade jet fuel, or just Gasoline in it. (Turbines eat anything, but a LOT of it)

    And yes the Russians have been "Advancing" if you want to call it that, rivers of red Russian blood have been flowing for the few hundred yards they have managed to push the defenders back.

    The whole winter has seen the lines, pretty much within a couple miles ether way of where they were in the fall.

    All the while Russia just throws cannon fodder at the lines.

    Kharkiv%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20January%2024%2C2023.png
     
    Last edited:

    BigMoose

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    Makes good sense, having one tank type helps a lot with the training and logistics. It's not like we aren't already contributing a lot of other hardware.

    Every day makes me feel more like this will be another Afghanistan down the road where we spend enough money to put Walmart on the moon and end up with nothing.
    Difference here, is the current occupants want us there.
     

    Brad69

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    @BigMoose is right!

    If you have ever witnessed a Armor unit spread out its tons of support guys. The Abrams will be stripped down export versions. No better than the Germans tanks.

    What a nightmare of logistics T series Russian stuff, German stuff, American stuff, French stuff.

    How would you keep up with just spare parts?

    Western Armies use a spare part system with different levels of maintenance and logistics.

    Eastern Armies use a on demand system and make spare parts in the field. This developed in WW2 due to supply lines.
     

    smokingman

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    The problem with the M1, is its Gas Turbine... it has been the major bottleneck.

    Ohh my goodness does this thing suck down fuel.. its NUTS.
    For every M1 Abrams, there are 9 hemtt trucks following it around trying to keep the damn thing fed. Its not just sending the Tank. Its committing to send the Tank, and the entire MASSIVE separate logistical structure for the M1 Abrams.

    In US service the Abrams uses JP8. Something not in Ukraine. It can burn #2 Diesel. But we will see if it can deal with the cheap fuel fed to Russian T series tanks. It may be better to throw the Russian grade jet fuel, or just Gasoline in it. (Turbines eat anything, but a LOT of it)

    And yes the Russians have been "Advancing" if you want to call it that, rivers of red Russian blood have been flowing for the few hundred yards they have managed to push the defenders back.

    The whole winter has seen the lines, pretty much within a couple miles ether way of where they were in the fall.

    All the while Russia just throws cannon fodder at the lines.

    Kharkiv%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20January%2024%2C2023.png
    I find that map ironic as is your claim of a few miles(ironic for not showing the area near Crimea or the southern part of the country). In southern parts of the country(you can see just a bit of it on the lower part of that map) Russia has advance 70-95km along a 170-200km part of the southern line in less than 48 hours.

    Ukraine pulled to much from the south trying to keep Bakhmut,and the Russians noticed.

    It is certainly been a meat grinder,but I believe(as did the now former head of Ukrainian defense until they resigned last week) that Ukraine can not possibly win with the losses they are taking vs inflicting. I may look for the quote from the NATO meeting where he stated it around 2 weeks ago. Not that it really matters. This is a narrative war.
     

    BugI02

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    I'm assuming the Leopards don't use the same cannon rounds as the M1s. Why on earth would we want to double the logistical difficulties to keep the tanks 'fed and watered' for little gain in capabilities, especially when sufficient numbers of L2s are available

    It certainly makes it seem like somebody, or several somebodies, want to get paid
     

    jwamplerusa

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    I listened to this today. It is long, but I think it was worth it. The most important part for me was in the first hour.

    I have no way of verifying the veracity of the interviewee other than paying attention to inflection and emotion, which suggested to me he might be speaking the truth.



    The podcast description says in part "Rep. Crenshaw spends almost 2 hours talking with Swift’s former team leader, “Jason,” in Ukraine." Swift was a veteran who was KIA as a volunteer in Ukraine.

    Obviously the podcast host is pro Ukrainian war support.
     

    BigMoose

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    I find that map ironic as is your claim of a few miles(ironic for not showing the area near Crimea or the southern part of the country). In southern parts of the country(you can see just a bit of it on the lower part of that map) Russia has advance 70-95km along a 170-200km part of the southern line in less than 48 hours.

    Ukraine pulled to much from the south trying to keep Bakhmut,and the Russians noticed.

    It is certainly been a meat grinder,but I believe(as did the now former head of Ukrainian defense until they resigned last week) that Ukraine can not possibly win with the losses they are taking vs inflicting. I may look for the quote from the NATO meeting where he stated it around 2 weeks ago. Not that it really matters. This is a narrative war.

    Say whaaat? uhh noo... not KMs, maybe hundreds of meters..

    Mostly blue down on that end.. they eeked forward a few streets maybe..

    Donetsk%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20January%2024%2C2023.png


    There is another map to the west, but the River is between the two sides there.
     

    smokingman

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    Say whaaat? uhh noo... not KMs, maybe hundreds of meters..

    Mostly blue down on that end.. they eeked forward a few streets maybe..

    Donetsk%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20January%2024%2C2023.png


    There is another map to the west, but the River is between the two sides there.
    Bit of news in the last 3 days.
     

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