Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,690
    113
    .

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    I don't have any data to go on, and so anything would be a pure WAG.


    But with three of them going, an accident is unlikely, but not impossible.
    I'd have to see how the pipes are, if they interconnect in anyway.
    But overpressures can be transmitted through pipes, and the substances in pipes.

    As for sabotage, well, you can do a lot of damage with fishing boats and dragging lines.
    What's the depth?
    What's the distance from shore?

    Then there's remote piloted devices. Have them crawl on the line?
     

    Wolfhound

    Hired Goon
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    45   0   0
    Apr 11, 2011
    3,966
    149
    Henry County
    I am not sure how deep the lines are where they are breached. Probably not terribly deep if divers are a possibility.

    From the article:
    Mr Puck Nielsen said of possible sabotage that “technically speaking, this is not difficult. It just requires a boat. It requires some divers that know how to handle explosive devices”.

    “But I think if we look at who would actually benefit from disturbances, more chaos on the gas market in Europe, I think there’s basically only one actor right now that actually benefits from more uncertainty, and that is Russia,” he added.
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,021
    113
    Martinsville
    I am not sure how deep the lines are where they are breached. Probably not terribly deep if divers are a possibility.

    From the article:
    Mr Puck Nielsen said of possible sabotage that “technically speaking, this is not difficult. It just requires a boat. It requires some divers that know how to handle explosive devices”.

    “But I think if we look at who would actually benefit from disturbances, more chaos on the gas market in Europe, I think there’s basically only one actor right now that actually benefits from more uncertainty, and that is Russia,” he added.

    ... So Russia would blow up their own pipeline, terminating 45% of their economy.... For reasons?

    MSM makes no sense.
     

    Wolfhound

    Hired Goon
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    45   0   0
    Apr 11, 2011
    3,966
    149
    Henry County
    As for men in suits?
    Well, if it's at any depth, it would take tenders, a major operation.

    And the kind of stuff that involves deep dives with no tenders, would be a major State player.
    Probably NOT Ukraine. US, Russia, or China probably, though there may me some other players.
    I would consider China capable but not likely due to distance. Maybe a couple of European countries. Be helpful to know the depth for sure.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    I would consider China capable but not likely due to distance. Maybe a couple of European countries. Be helpful to know the depth for sure.
    i think distance is a minimal consideration for a player with the resources of an entire nation.

    Rent some industrial shack somewhere on the edge of the water, through 3rd/4th parties.
    Transport equipment to site in shipping containers.
    Those small 'torpedoes' they use to move swimmers saving their energy.
    deep diving equipped divers
    either timers, or command detonated explosives.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,886
    149
    Columbus, OH
    ... So Russia would blow up their own pipeline, terminating 45% of their economy.... For reasons?

    MSM makes no sense.
    Possibly, if the damage is superficial and easy to repair

    They currently do not wish to pipe NG to Europe in order to pressure them to accede to Russian demands. If the excuse that the pipelines were down for unscheduled maintenance was beginning to wear thin and public opinion was turning substantially against Russia they might do so to offer plausible deniability that they have chosen to make ordinary Europeans suffer this winter for political gamesmanship
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    Russia doesn't make 'sense' because they need to sell the fuel. Well, that same logic says they wouldn't shut it off.
    Ukraine doesn't make 'sense' because they NEED the fuel. And they don't want to affect relations with nations giving them stuff.

    Problem with that logic, is that nations often do things in the short term not in their own interest.
    And both can use the logic to say... it wasn't me.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    How big are these pipelines anyway.
    I've walked through pipes, inside of them, at work.
    8 foot diameter pipe, probably has access points for emergency maintenance.
    just make sure the pipe is not at some horrible pressure, wear scuba, and don't wear anything that would spark.
     

    Wolfhound

    Hired Goon
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    45   0   0
    Apr 11, 2011
    3,966
    149
    Henry County


    Not suspicious at all.

    Just some training exercises in the area with submersible drones and mines.

    It’s pretty easy to see which way you are leaning on this. Probably the same for me.

    Baltops 22 was back in June. The 5th thru the 17th.

     

    DoggyDaddy

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    73   0   1
    Aug 18, 2011
    102,030
    77
    Southside Indy
    How big are these pipelines anyway.
    I've walked through pipes, inside of them, at work.
    8 foot diameter pipe, probably has access points for emergency maintenance.
    just make sure the pipe is not at some horrible pressure, wear scuba, and don't wear anything that would spark.
    1.15 meters inside diameter (from one of the articles posted earlier).
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,021
    113
    Martinsville
    It’s pretty easy to see which way you are leaning on this. Probably the same for me.

    Baltops 22 was back in June. The 5th thru the 17th.


    Biggest gain from this would be for the US.

    Prevent europe from possibly panicking due to lack of energy, and running to russia for gas. Also carries the potential of an article 5 if they can convince people russia was behind it.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Top Bottom