Rise of remote work

[Ingomike]

Electric word, never. It means forever and that's a mighty long time

Let’s go crazy…

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It's great work, if you can get keep it.

Unless the DoD goes under in the next 4 1/2 years, my confidence level is high.

 

[wtburnette]

In certain industries and in certain fields, the cat is out of the bag. Yes, some companies will force employees back, lose some of those employees and they'll find employers who know the score and will hire them back for another WFH position. I forecast those who really, really want to continue to work from home will find a way to do so.

 

[eldirector]

My current employer only has a couple of US offices, and a few international. A few thousand employees. We hire from about 36 states in the US (the rest have awful employment laws, so why bother). I'd have to change employers to even get near an office.

Even then, every single job posting I've seen for an equivalent position is advertised as "remote". Very few companies in this industry hire into physical locations, at least right now.

I have no intention of commuting to a beige cage ever again.

 

[Ingomike]

I think we have determined that introvert computer types like working from home…

 

[KLB]

I think we have determined that introvert computer types like working from home…

From what I have seen at my office, most people do. Very few voluntarily go into the office.

 

[wtburnette]

I think that, as with other things in life, things evolve over time. There are shifts in how people think about things and what used to not be possible becomes common. Being able to work from wherever you want to is a pretty powerful benefit to offer people for roles where it's possible. I've always hated my commute. No matter where I lived, traffic to and from work always sucked. My favorite commute back in the day is when I lived close enough to work to get up from my alarm, brush my teeth and 10 minutes from the alarm I was at my desk at work. That was a night shift, so on top of being close to work, it was at a time when there weren't many people on the road. Now my commute it rolling out of the bed and heading down the hall. Even better than the 10 minute commute at night.

Honestly once management adjusts, things will be much better. It's mostly the older, old school management types who somehow think that people are working better when they're in the office, or conversely, goofing off when they're at home. For positions where it makes sense, working from home can be beneficial for companies and employees. Companies can save money on floor space, cube material, physical phones, desks and chairs. Employees get the obvious benefits of no commute, which saves gas, plus wear and tear on your vehicle. They also get the ability to eat better and more conveniently, getting other things done around the house on breaks they wouldn't normally be able to and more. If all that can be done, while maintaining the workload and quality of work output, who can call that bad?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Since IU has started back for the fall, my wife has seen an uptick in “mandatory on-site” meetings. It’s still better than having to commute to Bloomington and back 5 days a week.

 

[bwframe]

Production is the only thing that will matter with remote vs on site workers. Especially as we go through this recession, production in this inflation riddled market will be the winner.

Remote workers will be competing with contractors, both domestic and foriegn. As long as production can stay at or above what others can do for the same money, they should be good. All the while, keeping in mind that loyalites between employer and employee fade with no face to face. This brings it back to the numbers.

Is the remote worker's benefits and insurance worth the cost vs a contractor who covers that cost on their own, working the job for a set dollar figure?

One of the biggest things a remote worker could do, short of producing something that cannot be done by any other, is to network to other remote workers the downside of the bragging about completing their workday in a couple of hours, while wearing only their skivies. That's the kind of knowlege that makes the customer wonder what they are paying for when they purchase the end product.

There is no graceful way to say this to my remote working friends, (who I wish the best for,) other than be blunt...

The overall tone of this thread has been that the remote worker likes working remotely and hell or high water won't be going back to the office. That is not much of a sale to an employer, whose whole job is the bottom line. That's the other side of remote working that is not as apparent to those in their skivies. The hidden (unpaid) side of your remote job is selling your employer that your services cannot be beat by in house or contract work.


.

 

[WebSnyper]

Production is the only thing that will matter with remote vs on site workers. Especially as we go through this recession, production in this inflation riddled market will be the winner.

Remote workers will be competing with contractors, both domestic and foriegn. As long as production can stay at or above what others can do for the same money, they should be good. All the while, keeping in mind that loyalites between employer and employee fade with no face to face. This brings it back to the numbers.

Is the remote worker's benefits and insurance worth the cost vs a contractor who covers that cost on their own, working the job for a set dollar figure?

One of the biggest things a remote worker could do, short of producing something that cannot be done by any other, is to network to other remote workers the downside of the bragging about completing their workday in a couple of hours, while wearing only their skivies. That's the kind of knowlege that makes the customer wonder what they are paying for when they purchase the end product.

There is no graceful way to say this to my remote working friends, (who I wish the best for,) other than be blunt...

The overall tone of this thread has been that the remote worker likes working remotely and hell or high water won't be going back to the office. That is not much of a sale to an employer, whose whole job is the bottom line. That's the other side of remote working that is not as apparent to those in their skivies. The hidden (unpaid) side of your remote job is selling your employer that your services cannot be beat by in house or contract work.


.

I get what you are saying. I actually agree to some extent that remote workers do need to be flexible, and make sure they are being professional, etc.

That said, I've worked for years with the lowest cost outsourcers, etc from both sides (as a direct customer of theirs as well as from a partner/vendor aspect). Not all the time, but in the largest part of my experience, there is a discernible difference between lowest cost, outsourced resources and full time employees (FTEs), even if the FTE is working remotely as well.

For the majority of cases, I see an ownership with FTEs that I don't see with lowest cost offshored contractors. Now that said, it's not 100% and I have seen some great offshored contract resources, and I've seen some bad FTEs.

To your point, I also see companies that are taking to global, remote working actual FTEs and not just sticking to traditional models of US based FTEs and offshored contractors.

 

[wtburnette]

Production is the only thing that will matter with remote vs on site workers. Especially as we go through this recession, production in this inflation riddled market will be the winner.

Remote workers will be competing with contractors, both domestic and foriegn. As long as production can stay at or above what others can do for the same money, they should be good. All the while, keeping in mind that loyalites between employer and employee fade with no face to face. This brings it back to the numbers.

Is the remote worker's benefits and insurance worth the cost vs a contractor who covers that cost on their own, working the job for a set dollar figure?

One of the biggest things a remote worker could do, short of producing something that cannot be done by any other, is to network to other remote workers the downside of the bragging about completing their workday in a couple of hours, while wearing only their skivies. That's the kind of knowlege that makes the customer wonder what they are paying for when they purchase the end product.

There is no graceful way to say this to my remote working friends, (who I wish the best for,) other than be blunt...

The overall tone of this thread has been that the remote worker likes working remotely and hell or high water won't be going back to the office. That is not much of a sale to an employer, whose whole job is the bottom line. That's the other side of remote working that is not as apparent to those in their skivies. The hidden (unpaid) side of your remote job is selling your employer that your services cannot be beat by in house or contract work.


.

The problem with this argument is that most office work already has to compete with contractors and overseas/outsourced employees. Changing the place where the work is done from the office to the remote office doesn't seriously change that equation. Contrast those stories of the remote worker getting their workday done in a couple hours with the YouTube and TikTok videos of office employees recording videos of their workdays where they're spending most of the time goofing off, eating company provided snacks, napping and getting only a couple hours of actual work done.

The bottom line is work getting done. I'm hoping more managers/employers wake up and realize that certain jobs can be done based on what is output instead of hours worked. We have an average amount of work that needs to be done per person in my role. This amount of work takes roughly 35 - 45 hours for most employees to do, because it's very complex work. Most of my coworkers take about 35 hours to get that work done. Our work is cyclic so we build in a little bit of leeway as we know some months we get slammed and have more work. I'm experienced enough I can do the same amount of work, plus do extra work on top of that, plus extra meetings on top of that and still usually only need to put in ~25 hours. My manager understands this and is fine with it. Works well for both of us. Is that wrong in any way? Neither of us think so.

 

[bwframe]

I get what you are saying. I actually agree to some extent that remote workers do need to be flexible, and make sure they are being professional, etc.

That said, I've worked for years with the lowest cost outsourcers, etc from both sides (as a direct customer of theirs as well as from a partner/vendor aspect). Not all the time, but in the largest part of my experience, there is a discernible difference between lowest cost, outsourced resources and full time employees (FTEs), even if the FTE is working remotely as well.

For the majority of cases, I see an ownership with FTEs that I don't see with lowest cost offshored contractors. Now that said, it's not 100% and I have seen some great offshored contract resources, and I've seen some bad FTEs.

To your point, I also see companies that are taking to global, remote working actual FTEs and not just sticking to traditional models of US based FTEs and offshored contractors.

Not to forget that some companies are at the mercy of decisions other than management. Be it stockholders or the customer, if weak numbers prevail, changes will have to be made. Business is not like socialism, there is not an endless supply of other people's money. If the incoming dollars go down, so will have to the labor costs.


.

 

[wtburnette]

Not to forget that some companies are at the mercy of decisions other than management. Be it stockholders or the customer, if weak numbers prevail, changes will have to be made. Business is not like socialism, there is not an endless supply of other people's money. If the incoming dollars go down, so will have to the labor costs.


.

What about if productivity actually rises with remote work? That's what my employer found for our InfoSec group. We did far better working remotely than we did in the office and have continued to do so (3 years solid now). I've head about other companies seeing similar results. I agree that if productivity starts to decline it needs to be investigated. What I would caution companies to not do is have a knee jerk reaction and recall all remote workers due to this. Actually investigate it and find out what the actual reason is. Make sure your managers actually have realistic expectations for productivity and are holding their employees accountable. I know for a fact that several managers I had didn't have a clue what we were doing, in the office or out. Of course, no one wants to hold bad managers responsible when they can just blame the remote workers...

 

[bwframe]

The problem with this argument is...

I'm not making an argument, my friend. I'm trying to get across how business works.

Please don't take my word for it, (as if you would.) Investigate this yourself. Find out what it takes to keep a company above water, in the modern market.

This is not personal. This is business. Numbers, numbers, numbers...

.

 

[wtburnette]

I'm not making an argument, my freind. I'm trying to get accross how business works.

Please don't take my word for it, (as if you would.) Investigate this yourself. Find out what it takes to keep a company above water, in the modern market.

This is not personal. This is business.

.

I'm not exactly new to the business world. I understand very well how business works. What I'm saying is that there will always be certain positions who can easily work from home and if companies realize it, both the company and the employees will benefit. If they decide to blame poor management and other productivity related woes on the poor remote worker, that's on them. I know in InfoSec, there will always be remote jobs available. They may not be as prevalent as they are at this time, but they'll always be out there.

Also not trying to argue as much as just state a fact...

 

[bwframe]

I'm not exactly new to the business world. I understand very well how business works. ...

...Also not trying to argue as much as just state a fact...

Sounds like you have it all figured out then.


.

 

[wtburnette]

Anyway, by your logic I'm already "screwed" anyway, because it's been proven to my employer and many others, that my position (as well as most of InfoSec) can be done remotely. I might as well just give up my 6 figure job now...

 

[Route 45]

Anyway, by your logic I'm already "screwed" anyway, because it's been proven to my employer and many others, that my position (as well as most of InfoSec) can be done remotely. I might as well just give up my 6 figure job now...

Better jump ship now and find a cubicle somewhere before it's too late.

 

[HoughMade]

Am I the only one who wants a strict demarcation between my work life and home life and to keep my work life out of the home as much as possible?

 

[Ingomike]

Am I the only one who wants a strict demarcation between my work life and home life and to keep my work life out of the home as much as possible?

No…