Rent Moratorium, any of you stuck with deadbeats?

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  • edporch

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    Anybody on here stuck with a deadbeat renter who now refuses to pay rent because Comrade Biden's Rent Moratorium says they don't have to?
    HOW are you dealing with this nonsense?

    My wife owns a rental property, and was just told today by her tenant that he doesn't have to pay rent, so he won't be paying rent.
    And I also understand that they can't be evicted either.
     

    maxwelhse

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    Looking into this a little, it looks like you can (and should) start eviction proceedings and the "help" for the renter isn't automatic, they have to apply for it. So just saying you have your foot on the base and nanner-nanner-boo-boo isn't how it works. She can still kick him out, but it may be hard. I'd start eviction proceedings as soon as possible by the terms in the lease.

    As a renter myself, this annoys the hell out of me because I'd kind of like to not live here anymore and with these dead beat squaters there is nowhere for me to go. I'm hoping once landlords can bounce these fools, they decide to sell the houses so maybe some inventory will free up as well.

    ---

    Tangentially... On "eviction weekend", before Biden extended it, the presumed ex of one my neighbors was seen for the first time in at least 2 years and he was helping her move a bunch of heavy furniture that she didn't move out with. Must have been nice having that rent money for other stuff.

    He has at least one kid with her so he probably had to do it, but... Ugh... What a nightmare for everyone to deal with this horse hockey.

    I'm making heaps of inferences there, but, it seemed pretty obvious as I watched it happen.
     

    edporch

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    Looking into this a little, it looks like you can (and should) start eviction proceedings and the "help" for the renter isn't automatic, they have to apply for it. So just saying you have your foot on the base and nanner-nanner-boo-boo isn't how it works. She can still kick him out, but it may be hard. I'd start eviction proceedings as soon as possible by the terms in the lease.
    -Snip-
    I thought it wasn't even possible to evict them, but I could be wrong.

    The "lease" my wife has with this scum is a verbal month to month.
    He had a reputation of being a deadbeat renter before she rented to him.
    I WARNED her to not rent to this loser, but she ignored me.

    Now deadbeat is telling my wife that she needs to have a written lease with him, that locks him in to a term of time.

    I told her no way she should forfeit her 30 day notice month to month.
     

    maxwelhse

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    I thought it wasn't even possible to evict them, but I could be wrong.

    The "lease" my wife has with this scum is a verbal month to month.
    He had a reputation of being a deadbeat renter before she rented to him.
    I WARNED her to not rent to this loser, but she ignored me.

    Now deadbeat is telling my wife that she needs to have a written lease with him, that locks him in to a term of time.

    I told her no way she should forfeit her 30 day notice month to month.

    Everything I'm reading, including around you and around me, says it's possible to evict them and landlords are pursuing it. People actually have to do the right things or it doesn't count.

    From here:

    To be covered under the federal moratorium, tenants must be adversely affected by COVID-19, whether that be extra medical bills or layoffs caused by the pandemic. Then, a person facing eviction needs to fill out a CDC form and submit it to the court and their landlord, though Fox recommends anyone who falls behind on rent due to a COVID-related circumstance to give the form to their landlord ahead of time.

    and... I'm going to say she's screwed anyhow without a written lease. He'll just tell whatever lies he wants. If there are no written eviction terms, how is she supposed to evict the guy in a court of law? She does need to have a written lease with him, but good luck getting him to sign one with eviction terms in it that are favorable to her right now. I also imagine this guy is about to trash the place.

    Maybe go the other way with the clown and ask him if he wants to buy it as a very good deal price? That pipe dream may keep him from tearing the place up for awhile while he gets rejected for financing?
     

    maxwelhse

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    Since I've already partially thread-jacked...

    I just took the garbage out, at 10 to midnight mind you, the Rhodes Scholar next door was sorting through an entire trunk of laundry with a flash light looking for "something?"

    I'm sure on her mind the entire time was "job application... job application... where did I put that job application!!?"

    I feel bad for any landlord who isn't renting to me. :)
     

    churchmouse

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    We are so glad all our rentals have been sold off. People were changing even then. Looking for every advantage or excuse to abuse the agreements.
    OP I can see where all this took place having direct knowledge of her situation and her reluctance to listen when she just does not want to hear what’s being shared.
    guy needs his ass kicked.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    I thought it wasn't even possible to evict them, but I could be wrong.

    The "lease" my wife has with this scum is a verbal month to month.
    He had a reputation of being a deadbeat renter before she rented to him.
    I WARNED her to not rent to this loser, but she ignored me.

    Now deadbeat is telling my wife that she needs to have a written lease with him, that locks him in to a term of time.

    I told her no way she should forfeit her 30 day notice month to month.
    First IANAL.

    There is a moratorium on evictions for failing to pay rent only. And that is subject to restrictions. As stated they have to file a declaration with the landlord and the courts under penalty of perjury that they meet the requirements. They also have to show up in court for the hearing. The rental must also be in a county that meets the requirements, unfortunately that is most IN counties. I think there are 8 that currently don't. They can be evicted for other reasons.

    I don't believe there is any requirement forcing a landlord to have a written lease. Deadbeat may want one, possibly because evicting someone after their lease has expired isn't prohibited. And since it's a month to month lease, all the landlord has to do is give 30 days notice that she is not renewing the lease.

    If your wife wants him out, if I were her I would send a certified letter return receipt requested stating that she is not renewing the lease and wants him out at the end of the next month. And do so asap. Then possibly file for eviction asap depending on backlog/timeline/etc of getting a court date. Even if she can't actually evict him, I believe she can still get an eviction order that can be enforced if/when the moratorium expires or the county falls below the transmission rate required. There were a bunch of evictions that were enforced in the couple of days between when the moratorium expired and before the new one was put into place.

    and... I'm going to say she's screwed anyhow without a written lease. He'll just tell whatever lies he wants. If there are no written eviction terms, how is she supposed to evict the guy in a court of law? She does need to have a written lease with him, but good luck getting him to sign one with eviction terms in it that are favorable to her right now. I also imagine this guy is about to trash the place.
    I'll have to disagree a bit, under the IC it would be considered a month to month lease I believe. And she can terminate the lease with 30 days notice. She can evict him for failing to move out after the expiration of the lease.
     

    femurphy77

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    The poor dumbasses that pull this off for a while don't understand that their options are going to be terrible when it finally comes time to be kicked out.
    Those poor dumbasses aren't thinking forward more than about 3 minutes. We stopped at a garage sale the other day that was posted as a "Forced to move" sale. Guy had been living in a property his ex owned for 20 years RENT FREE and was bitching because she only gave him 30 to clear out!

    He had a couple of things I really wanted but just couldn't see myself handing cash over to someone like that so we left.
     

    maxwelhse

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    I'll have to disagree a bit, under the IC it would be considered a month to month lease I believe. And she can terminate the lease with 30 days notice. She can evict him for failing to move out after the expiration of the lease.

    Until he says it wasn't a month-to-month lease, or that she told him it was OK not to pay, or that he paid and she's lying, or they agreed to a 600 year eviction notice period, etc.

    Like you, IAMAL, but I can see the lies and court time/costs just not being worth dealing with it until thing settle back out. From the folks I have talked to that are landlords, during normal times getting people evicted is pretty tough. It seems the courts really like to be on the side of the tenant.
     

    BE Mike

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    My wife is a big "Judge Judy" fan and that makes me one by association. One thing I've learned is to have everything in writing. Also, "Act in haste; repent in leisure!"
     

    radar8756

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    Until he says it wasn't a month-to-month lease, or that she told him it was OK not to pay, or that he paid and she's lying, or they agreed to a 600 year eviction notice period, etc.
    ....

    If you don't have it in Writing ... it didn't happen


    hear-say

    information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate - rumor.

    LAW
    the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
    "everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"
     

    JeepHammer

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    Anybody on here stuck with a deadbeat renter who now refuses to pay rent because Comrade Biden's Rent Moratorium says they don't have to?
    HOW are you dealing with this nonsense?

    My wife owns a rental property, and was just told today by her tenant that he doesn't have to pay rent, so he won't be paying rent.
    And I also understand that they can't be evicted either.

    Correction:
    The rent moratorium came under the Trump administration,
    Passed by both sides and both houses of Congress.
    It's not a 'Biden' thing.

    Left wing, Right wing, same bird.

    Wasting time whining after the fact, trying to fix the blame instead of fixing the problem doubles the stress...

    ---------

    And NO...
    My renters have paid on time, every time.
    A lot of that has to do with poor screening when the lease was made, which I learned the hard way in the late '90s/early 2000s.

    "Deadbeats" come recommended by family, friends, churches, etc simply because all of the above are trying to unload their dead weight onto someone else.
    It's outright fraud by all parties involved, but it's ultimately up to the property to execute due diligence.

    And again, I learned that the hard way, practical experience...
    You *CAN* waste time & effort now, you have it to waste because you didn't use the time constructively screening your renters...
     

    HoughMade

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    If you don't have it in Writing ... it didn't happen


    hear-say

    information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate - rumor.

    LAW
    the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
    "everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"
    Well....no.

    Leases are always better in writing because the terms are easier to prove. Also, in Indiana, residential leases over 3 years must be in writing.

    The "Hearsay" rule doesn't mean all spoken testimony is inadmissible. Far from. In a "he said", "he said" lease situation, a judge just has to decide who to believe...which they do all the time.
     

    eldirector

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    My in-laws have a few rental properties. No deadbeats. They have a pretty iron-clad lease agreement, though. They have also gotten REAL good at sniffing out problems.

    For the OP, my only comments:
    a) verbal agreements aren't even worth the paper they are written on.
    b) always file for eviction. Make the courts do their job. In most cases, the tenant will move on, rather than deal with the court system (again).
    c) moratorium does not mean "no rent due". Just means they MIGHT be able to defer payment or defer eviction. They will still owe the amount at the end of the moratorium. Most folks can't/won't think passed the next payday, so they likely haven't really processed that small detail.
     

    JeepHammer

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    Looking into this a little, it looks like you can (and should) start eviction proceedings and the "help" for the renter isn't automatic, they have to apply for it. So just saying you have your foot on the base and nanner-nanner-boo-boo isn't how it works. She can still kick him out, but it may be hard. I'd start eviction proceedings as soon as possible by the terms in the lease.

    As a renter myself, this annoys the hell out of me because I'd kind of like to not live here anymore and with these dead beat squaters there is nowhere for me to go. I'm hoping once landlords can bounce these fools, they decide to sell the houses so maybe some inventory will free up as well.

    ---

    Tangentially... On "eviction weekend", before Biden extended it, the presumed ex of one my neighbors was seen for the first time in at least 2 years and he was helping her move a bunch of heavy furniture that she didn't move out with. Must have been nice having that rent money for other stuff.

    He has at least one kid with her so he probably had to do it, but... Ugh... What a nightmare for everyone to deal with this horse hockey.

    I'm making heaps of inferences there, but, it seemed pretty obvious as I watched it happen.

    I don't get along with many other landlords because they are mostly slum lords, very underhanded.

    When we did rentals we bought older, solid homes,
    Put in new wiring, plumbing, roofs, updated kitchen/bathrooms, updated HVAC, etc.

    A big corporate plant was building in this area, we went for professionals, so 3rd bedrooms became dens or offices with high speed internet, UPS battery backups, etc.

    When the plant was built & operating, those guys bought homes or moved on, I had to rent to locals,
    And that became a nightmare, welfare moms much more interested in booze & drugs, deadbeats of all flavors...
    They tore the hell out of the properties, left mountains of trash (with free trash collection in town)...

    I started renting to immigrants, which completely drove the neighbors nuts, but they paid on time, every time.
    Eventually I sold off the in town rentals, mostly to the immigrant renters on contract, they all paid off early, and took good care of the properties while they rented.

    I got VERY particular about contracts, did my due diligence on background checks/references, and 99% of my issues went away.

    The white trash neighbors complained about the immigrants, but having a backyard garden isn't illegal, neither is having cookouts, etc.
    The immigrants homes always looked better than the neighbors, edging sidewalks/mowing yards etc. were in the contracts, and with new doors, windows, roofs, siding in a lot of cases, the homes just looked better, and that pissed off the white trash to no end! ;)

    Want a garden? I'll bring the rototiller in and turn the ground over.
    If the next renter doesn't want a garden, it's another pass with the rototiller and a handful of grass seed, like it never happened...

    Gardens sure beat piles of trash, junk vehicles & appliances, general trash in the yards!

    I'm happy to deduct materials, supply ladders, power washers & such if the renters will paint the house/trim, clean gutters, power wash the sidewalks/steps etc!!!

    If they had vehicles they wanted to work on, I let them use the shop and my 'Loaner' tools, helped out with repairs/maintenance when I had time.
    Sure cut down on the vehicles sitting around, not that I had much of that when the welfare/white trash got pride out of the properties.

    You get what you settle for, don't settle for deadbeats. It's that simple.
    I had a Mexican family that had rented for 2 years when I decided to sell the house (no hurry, just when a cash offer at my selling price came in).
    They plunked down HALF of the sale price, and paid the contract off in two more years.
    With HALF down, they still couldn't get a home loan, so we did a contract...

    Good people are good people, doesn't matter if they are 'Brown' or come from somewhere else,
    Just pay taxes, keep your nose in your own business & mow your yard!
     

    JeepHammer

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    My in-laws have a few rental properties. No deadbeats. They have a pretty iron-clad lease agreement, though. They have also gotten REAL good at sniffing out problems.

    For the OP, my only comments:
    a) verbal agreements aren't even worth the paper they are written on.
    b) always file for eviction. Make the courts do their job. In most cases, the tenant will move on, rather than deal with the court system (again).
    c) moratorium does not mean "no rent due". Just means they MIGHT be able to defer payment or defer eviction. They will still owe the amount at the end of the moratorium. Most folks can't/won't think passed the next payday, so they likely haven't really processed that small detail.

    A bunch need to read the above again!!!

    Due Diligence Done by this guy!
     

    maxwelhse

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    Aug 21, 2018
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    I don't get along with many other landlords because they are mostly slum lords, very underhanded.

    When we did rentals we bought older, solid homes,
    Put in new wiring, plumbing, roofs, updated kitchen/bathrooms, updated HVAC, etc.

    A big corporate plant was building in this area, we went for professionals, so 3rd bedrooms became dens or offices with high speed internet, UPS battery backups, etc.

    When the plant was built & operating, those guys bought homes or moved on, I had to rent to locals,
    And that became a nightmare, welfare moms much more interested in booze & drugs, deadbeats of all flavors...
    They tore the hell out of the properties, left mountains of trash (with free trash collection in town)...

    I started renting to immigrants, which completely drove the neighbors nuts, but they paid on time, every time.
    Eventually I sold off the in town rentals, mostly to the immigrant renters on contract, they all paid off early, and took good care of the properties while they rented.

    I got VERY particular about contracts, did my due diligence on background checks/references, and 99% of my issues went away.

    The white trash neighbors complained about the immigrants, but having a backyard garden isn't illegal, neither is having cookouts, etc.
    The immigrants homes always looked better than the neighbors, edging sidewalks/mowing yards etc. were in the contracts, and with new doors, windows, roofs, siding in a lot of cases, the homes just looked better, and that pissed off the white trash to no end! ;)

    Want a garden? I'll bring the rototiller in and turn the ground over.
    If the next renter doesn't want a garden, it's another pass with the rototiller and a handful of grass seed, like it never happened...

    Gardens sure beat piles of trash, junk vehicles & appliances, general trash in the yards!

    I'm happy to deduct materials, supply ladders, power washers & such if the renters will paint the house/trim, clean gutters, power wash the sidewalks/steps etc!!!

    If they had vehicles they wanted to work on, I let them use the shop and my 'Loaner' tools, helped out with repairs/maintenance when I had time.
    Sure cut down on the vehicles sitting around, not that I had much of that when the welfare/white trash got pride out of the properties.

    You get what you settle for, don't settle for deadbeats. It's that simple.
    I had a Mexican family that had rented for 2 years when I decided to sell the house (no hurry, just when a cash offer at my selling price came in).
    They plunked down HALF of the sale price, and paid the contract off in two more years.
    With HALF down, they still couldn't get a home loan, so we did a contract...

    Good people are good people, doesn't matter if they are 'Brown' or come from somewhere else,
    Just pay taxes, keep your nose in your own business & mow your yard!

    That was an entertaining read, but it seems like you think I said something bad about immigrants? I said something bad about s-bags. I've seen 'em in all colors.

    I've had good landlords, I've had bad ones, and a few in the middle. I have developed a pretty strict non-contact policy when it comes to them. I pay my rent at least 10 days early every month, I keep the grass mowed and the thrash picked up, I'm quiet as a mouse (just not a Churchmouse ;) ) and I typically fix anything under $50 and say nothing about it. I assume from day 1 that my security deposit is gone and otherwise I try to go about my affairs as I please.

    Mostly what I've learned over the last 20-ish years is that I'm done with neighborhoods. I can't afford to buy enough property to be out of a neighborhood yet, so I rent for the time being...
     
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