Red dots on handguns are for play (change my mind)

[92FSTech]

Gadgets don't make for better shooters...acquired knowledge and applied practice does!

I'll agree with that as well...however, training with the dot has made me a better shooter across the board. I was forced to clean up my presentation so that I could acquire the dot...but the dot gave me instant feedback as I practiced this, and enabled me to do it dry, which probably paid for the stupid thing in ammo savings alone.

It also allows you to clearly see how your sight picture behaves while recovering from recoil, and any user-induced motion of the gun (flinch, jerking, etc). It can be a really valuable training tool for skills that apply across the board, to handguns with or without a dot.

I agree that the dot absolutely doesn't replace the need for learning and practice, but it can help make them easier and more productive.

 

[NHT3]

It’s kinda comical that the gamer Bill Wilson, who now makes a living selling highly priced customized guns for CCW, is making any comment about spending anything for something gun related. Talk about hypocrisy on this issue. Dude, your 1911’s cost around $2500….crazy!

Actually the average price of his pistols is over $3000. I hadn't considered the hypocrisy but it is more than ironic how he bloviates about not spending extra on a product when that is his exact business model.. What an arrogant asshat.

 

[NHT3]

There's shooting and then there is shooting. There is no doubt todays top Practical Pistol champions have raised the bar by leaps and bounds and have dragged regular people like me along. I can't count the number of times I have heard a former or current SF guy say he tried his first competition and got his butt handed to him. Some continue on and improve, and some can't take the hit to their ego.

As to not being able to buy skill. I like to say you can't buy skill, but you can buy performance. Gear may not make you a better shooter but it can make you shoot better. Lets look at Bianchi Cup/NRA Action pistol or whatever CMP is going to call it. This is a sport requiring a balance of speed and accuracy. The guys winning the iron sight division are great shooters, but they are not beating the guys winning the optics divisions. Heck, that is why there are divisions. If 2 race car drivers have equal skill but one has a faster car (assuming it is reliable) the one with the faster car is going to win.

Brought to mind what I heard the dear departed "Coach" at least a hundred times.
"Men don't train because they don't want to suck in public"

Thanks for bringing fond memories of my friend to mind on this cold Sunday morning!

 

[Sailor]

I will posit that everyone is better off buying practice ammo for their edc instead of a red dot.

- good shooters point instinctively within typical self defense range
- red dots are electronic, consume batteries, and are an additional failure point
- red dots add weight
- unless all your pistols have red dots, you have inconsistent sight pictures across arms
- i personally find them unnatural vs irons, admittedly this is likely a training issue
- all of these points also apply to lasers

In conclusion i believe red dots are a fad. They look cool and may be a status symbol.

Are the above ideas incorrect or do the pros of red dots outweigh these cons?

Pros:
Accurate shots in the dark

You obviously have good eyesight. My aging eyes can not focus on my front sight. Red dot solves that. Being able to see your sights is important, no?

 

[Skip]

I will posit that everyone is better off buying practice ammo for their edc instead of a red dot.

- good shooters point instinctively within typical self defense range

I find it odd that you feel it is an “either/or" proposition.
With most folks disposable income going to lottery tickets, booze, cigarettes, drugs, sporting event gambling and a host of other things, wouldn’t it seem many could actually afford to do both? Buy ammo AND purchase a red dot?

And, to your other highlighted statement: No, we don’t. We use sights except when we are too close to use them. THINK: Retention position and sub 1 yard distances. I posit that most errant shots are because someone didn’t see their sights on target.

 

[Skip]

In conclusion i believe red dots are a fad. They look cool and may be a status symbol.

Yeah, that’s why the Armed Forces that keep us safe use them…..

 

[purdue98]

I am relative new to reflex sights on pistols (since 2022).
Granted, during my youth and military service (US ARMY 1981-1985), I was iron sights only. My Army time was spent on 155 towed artillery.
As the astigmatism increased with age, red dots are helpful but iron sights are always sighted in first.
On the pistol formats, it greatly aids in using both eyes open to acquire the target. Yes, battery failure is always possible. My EDC is the FNP-40 with Tritium Night Sights. Glock G21, G22 and PSA Rock all have reflex sights. Not sufficient time spent on the range with the reflex sights to use as EDC (yet).

It comes down to preference for each individual.

 

[getem2011]

I would tend to agree with you but they still have functional cool factor. In shtf situations it be useful though.

 

[flightsimmer]

I recently purchased a S&W M&P M2.0 compact with a Holosun SCS (solar charging sight) green dot sight, it never needs a new battery but can be replaced if it would become defective.
It also has green co-witness Tritium night sights which I found to be really cool in the dark.

Now I have a similar S&W with iron, three white dot sights which I like very much.
It will be interesting to see which one I find I like best but I'll bet it will be the one with the green dot sight.
It will also be interesting to see how quickly I can get used to them and use them effectively.

Now I've got one of those new fangled S&W FPC carbines to which I added fully adjustable folding iron sights and a Holosun SCRS red dot sight.
Now all I need is enough ammunition to fill them up.

 

[bwframe]

 

[Dean C.]

^^^

Notice how the old guys are the ones who don't like dots lol , took Bill Wilson years too long to accept that's what the market wants. Plus LEO can now be seen pretty regularly with dots on their pistols too.

 

[Skip]

^^^

Notice how the old guys are the ones who don't like dots lol , took Bill Wilson years too long to accept that's what the market wants. Plus LEO can now be seen pretty regularly with dots on their pistols too.

I’m 67 and now have a red dot on every CCW pistol I carry.

 

[Dean C.]

Active Self Protection on Instagram: "Are you Gun Amish? Is 1987 the right amount of technology? (Full seminar in the ASP Unlimited app link in bio)"

9,056 likes, 461 comments - Active Self Protection (@activeselfprotection) on Instagram: "Are you Gun Amish? Is 1987 the right amount of technology? (Full seminar in the ASP Unlimited app..."

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John Correia from Active Self Protection on red dots on pistols. I am 100% stealing "Gun Amish"

 

[Hookeye]

^^^

Notice how the old guys are the ones who don't like dots lol , took Bill Wilson years too long to accept that's what the market wants. Plus LEO can now be seen pretty regularly with dots on their pistols too.

Im old and want reflex sights on everything

Can still run irons pretty fast/ well

Dots just kick azz in low light and or when the gas pedal needs floored.

 

[bwframe]

I think we are getting to the point now, with modern red dot sighting, that it would pay to be well versed in how to run them well.

The other side of the story is for the young'uns, who have mostly only experienced the magic of the red dot. They need to get some real world under pressure training/competition experience under their belt with irons.

 

[Dean C.]

I think we are getting to the point now, with modern red dot sighting, that it would pay to be well versed in how to run them well.

The other side of the story is for the young'uns, who have mostly only experienced the magic of the red dot. They need to get some real world under pressure training/competition experience under their belt with irons.

As long as someone has BUIS and knows how to use them why would competing with irons and not their dot be beneficial? It would be way more helpful for them to learn how to run the dot under pressure than the irons they won't have to use.

 

[NHT3]

If you have BUIS turning off the RDS and training with sights is easy enough.. Only possible downside would be cost.

 

[bwframe]

If you have BUIS turning off the RDS and training with sights is easy enough.. Only possible downside would be cost.

Agreed.

Just pointing out that as a rookie at shooting there is a quite the learning curve to get the front sight focus needed to do it well consistently. Target focus vs front sight focus.


.

 

[BigRed3588]

Not a fan of reflex sights personally. I just find it easier and faster to locate the front site and get it on target with irons. I can see the benefit of a reflex sight in competition or if you’re shooting at longer distances, but that isn’t what I train for. I rarely even use the rear sight on my pistols, so spending a few hundred per sight, changing my grip angle, and staking my life on batteries just isn’t worth it for me.

 

[Bosshoss]

I just find it easier and faster to locate the front site and get it on target with irons.

This is a lack of training with the RD. There is no place that Iron sights are faster than a RD. I shoot competition with primarily iron sights and still say that a Reddot is at least as fast or faster in every situation.

I can see the benefit of a reflex sight in competition or if you’re shooting at longer distances, but that isn’t what I train for.

I have no idea what you train for but competition is usually about being the fastest AND most accurate with a firearm. That is the same thing that wins in a self defense situation.

so spending a few hundred per sight, changing my grip angle, and staking my life on batteries just isn’t worth it for me.

I carry what I'm good with and can comfortably carry for the activity I'm doing. I don't put a price on what might save my life.

That being said carry what you want and are good with but just because something you don't want or have much experience with doesn't mean it isn't better.