Random violence stats I've compiled

[Patrick Taylor]

 

[jamil]

Apparently 9mm DOES blow the lungs right out.

 

[cosermann]

Apparently 9mm DOES blow the lungs right out.

The way they calculated the percentages is goofy. Each caliber is compared to the total. So since there were more shootings with 9 mm it has a higher nonfatal and fatal percentage - of the total. It doesn’t really tell us anything - other than 9 mm was the most used caliber. Not sure why they expressed it that way.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The way they calculated the percentages is goofy. Each caliber is compared to the total. So since there were more shootings with 9 mm it has a higher nonfatal and fatal percentage - of the total. It doesn’t really tell us anything - other than 9 mm was the most used caliber. Not sure why they expressed it that way.

I learned very early in my stat tracking how useless an endeavor that is, since you'd have to include so many variables that the sample size for any given context is tiny. What you end up with is, like that chart, useless data. Bullet selection matters more than caliber once you're in to the duty calibers and up. Shot placement matters a lot more than either. Fatal vs non-fatal is also useless. Dead in the hospital 10 days later is a fatal, but tells you nothing about how the individual reacted at the scene.

 

[PSOD]

These are mostly cases I worked in some capacity (lead or assisting), but do include some from detectives I've asked to notify me of instances of citizens fighting back so that I can get information from Sex Crimes, etc. that I don't work.

19 total cases. I'd hoped for a larger sample, but after I culled domestics and criminal v criminal encounters I had fewer than I thought I would. I've gone through over 300 cases at this point to get these, which is a combination of two factors. Few people are targeted by random crime, and fewer fight back when they are.

Total shots fired:
N/A (weapon used was not a firearm) x5
0 shots x5
1 shot x4
3 shots x3
4 shots x1
11 shots x1


Number of shots to resolution (suspect disabled/began to flee or citizen disabled/disarmed):

0 shots x7
1 shots x6
3 shots x1

Distance at time of resistance
Contact x 7
0-3' x 5
3-7' x 3
7-21' x 3
21' + x1 (bad shoot)

Was speed of the draw a consideration in the outcome:
Yes, from body carry x5
Yes, from off body carry x2
No, had firearm in hand prior to need to engage x3
No, had other weapon in hand (knife, blunt, etc) prior to need to engage x 2
No, draw speed of weapon was not a consideration (disabled prior to beginning draw, bad shoot and suspects already fleeing before 1st shot, etc.) x5
N/A, unarmed resistance x2

Reload:

0 incidents

Additional equipment needed:

0 incidents

Win/loss/tie (tie defined as at least one party on both sides disabled/killed)

W x 13
T x 1
L x 5

Outcomes of win

Suspect fled without sustaining injury x6
Suspect killed x3
Suspect disabled/psychologically stopped due to injury x3
Suspect restrained (not seriously injured) x1


Outcome of tie:

Victim injured during commission of crime/suspect injured during flight

Outcome of loss
Victim failed to deactivate thumb safety, victimized
Victim carrying with empty chamber, killed
Victim killed reaching for weapon
Victim engaged 2 suspects he can see, shot from behind, suspects flee
Victim wrestled suspect, was shot, suspect fled.


Citizen weapon used:
Victim weapon
Handgun-pistol x7
Handgun-revolver x5
Handgun - other x1
Unarmed x2
Golf club x1
shotgun x1
knife x1
taser x1

Suspect weapon
Unarmed x13
handgun x7
unknown weapon x1

Number of victims

1 victim x14
2 victim x3
3 victim x2

Number of suspects

1 suspect x 10
2 suspect x 5
3 suspect x 4

Citizen averages vs single suspect:

0.67 shots

80% won encounter

Citizen averages vs multiple suspects:

0.57 shots
50% won encounter

Citizens with firearms won 64% of the time. However citizens who could employ their firearm (removing those reaching for off body carry, failing to deactivate safeties, etc) won 81% of the time. Other methods of resistance had an 80% success rate. The element of surprise was more important than the specific weapon employed, ie ambushing someone with a golf club and knocking their teeth down the stairs was better than attempting to reach for a handgun while under direct observation of an armed suspect. Citizens using other weapons were more likely to use ambush tactics and were also closer to their opponent.

Due to the small sample size, this should be viewed as preliminary information at best. I will attempt to build on this database and will attempt to update every 20 incidents, (ie next update at 40 incidents)

appreciate your compilation. very interesting stats.

 

[45sRfun]

Bullet selection matters more than caliber once you're in to the duty calibers and up. Shot placement matters a lot more than either.

Great words of wisdom! Bottom line, practice, practice, practice.

 

[green46105]

very interesting case study. would be interesting to know training of individuals involved too. find out how much their training led to a more successful intervention on their parts vs a person with little to no training or one with just " i shoot 1000 rounds a month at the range and im good" type of attitude. but very interesting. thank you for compiling and sharing with the community.

 

[Compatriot]

These are mostly cases I worked in some capacity (lead or assisting), but do include some from detectives I've asked to notify me of instances of citizens fighting back so that I can get information from Sex Crimes, etc. that I don't work.

19 total cases. I'd hoped for a larger sample, but after I culled domestics and criminal v criminal encounters I had fewer than I thought I would. I've gone through over 300 cases at this point to get these, which is a combination of two factors. Few people are targeted by random crime, and fewer fight back when they are.

Total shots fired:
N/A (weapon used was not a firearm) x5
0 shots x5
1 shot x4
3 shots x3
4 shots x1
11 shots x1


Number of shots to resolution (suspect disabled/began to flee or citizen disabled/disarmed):

0 shots x7
1 shots x6
3 shots x1

Distance at time of resistance
Contact x 7
0-3' x 5
3-7' x 3
7-21' x 3
21' + x1 (bad shoot)

Was speed of the draw a consideration in the outcome:
Yes, from body carry x5
Yes, from off body carry x2
No, had firearm in hand prior to need to engage x3
No, had other weapon in hand (knife, blunt, etc) prior to need to engage x 2
No, draw speed of weapon was not a consideration (disabled prior to beginning draw, bad shoot and suspects already fleeing before 1st shot, etc.) x5
N/A, unarmed resistance x2

Reload:

0 incidents

Additional equipment needed:

0 incidents

Win/loss/tie (tie defined as at least one party on both sides disabled/killed)

W x 13
T x 1
L x 5

Outcomes of win

Suspect fled without sustaining injury x6
Suspect killed x3
Suspect disabled/psychologically stopped due to injury x3
Suspect restrained (not seriously injured) x1


Outcome of tie:

Victim injured during commission of crime/suspect injured during flight

Outcome of loss
Victim failed to deactivate thumb safety, victimized
Victim carrying with empty chamber, killed
Victim killed reaching for weapon
Victim engaged 2 suspects he can see, shot from behind, suspects flee
Victim wrestled suspect, was shot, suspect fled.


Citizen weapon used:
Victim weapon
Handgun-pistol x7
Handgun-revolver x5
Handgun - other x1
Unarmed x2
Golf club x1
shotgun x1
knife x1
taser x1

Suspect weapon
Unarmed x13
handgun x7
unknown weapon x1

Number of victims

1 victim x14
2 victim x3
3 victim x2

Number of suspects

1 suspect x 10
2 suspect x 5
3 suspect x 4

Citizen averages vs single suspect:

0.67 shots

80% won encounter

Citizen averages vs multiple suspects:

0.57 shots
50% won encounter

Citizens with firearms won 64% of the time. However citizens who could employ their firearm (removing those reaching for off body carry, failing to deactivate safeties, etc) won 81% of the time. Other methods of resistance had an 80% success rate. The element of surprise was more important than the specific weapon employed, ie ambushing someone with a golf club and knocking their teeth down the stairs was better than attempting to reach for a handgun while under direct observation of an armed suspect. Citizens using other weapons were more likely to use ambush tactics and were also closer to their opponent.

Due to the small sample size, this should be viewed as preliminary information at best. I will attempt to build on this database and will attempt to update every 20 incidents, (ie next update at 40 incidents)

Thank you for compiling this data. I think most people have no idea about the true nature of these types of situations. Two important things that are typically overlooked is the distance between perp and victim and number of shots fired. Distance is usually much closer than you would think, and the number of shots are usually much less than you would think. Success rate was a newer stat that I have not seen before. I will take it as a reminder to keep one in the chamber.

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

So in my experience, when talking with people about statistics, nuances, and scenarios of citizen and police shootings, and when they ask you where you got this insight from, the answer "Got it from a squirrel on the internet" may not be the best one to provide. The more you know, huh?

 

[jsharmon7]

So in my experience, when talking with people about statistics, nuances, and scenarios of citizen and police shootings, and when they ask you where you got this insight from, the answer "Got it from a squirrel on the internet" may not be the best one to provide. The more you know, huh?

At least tell them about the hat, for credibility purposes.

 

[bobzilla]

So in my experience, when talking with people about statistics, nuances, and scenarios of citizen and police shootings, and when they ask you where you got this insight from, the answer "Got it from a squirrel on the internet" may not be the best one to provide. The more you know, huh?

I mean he's died 14 times from flying in death tubes so .... ymmv

 

[Cameramonkey]

So in my experience, when talking with people about statistics, nuances, and scenarios of citizen and police shootings, and when they ask you where you got this insight from, the answer "Got it from a squirrel on the internet" may not be the best one to provide. The more you know, huh?

That's DETECTIVE squirrel. He's a professional.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

"Got it from a squirrel on the internet" may not be the best one to provide. The more you know, huh?

When you put it that way, I'm not sure I trust me any longer. I've known me for a long time, though, and it's not the first time I've thought that guy was an idiot.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

When you blow your cover, RUN!

 

[bobzilla]

When you put it that way, I'm not sure I trust me any longer. I've known me for a long time, though, and it's not the first time I've thought that guy was an idiot.

was this a revelation when you were being hurtled to your death in a death tube?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

was this a revelation when you were being hurtled to your death in a death tube?

The first five times, but after that I was immune to the horror.

 

[jamil]

Wait. There's a vaccine for that?

 

[printcraft]

Speaking of random violence...
Anybody know how high the blood in the streets has gotten since Constitution carry was adopted in Indiana?
I was promised Yuge amounts of blood in the streets if it were to take effect.
I've invested heavily in a hematological recovery and cleaning company and I'm getting a bit nervous.

 

[dudley0]

Squirrels do not have that much blood. Would take a lot of them bleeding out to fill a street.

 

[printcraft]

Squirrels do not have that much blood. Would take a lot of them bleeding out to fill a street.