Question from my father in law

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  • PurdueBandsman

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    Jun 22, 2014
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    So my father in law has changed his residency to the state of Michigan since that is where they are planning on retiring and are spending more and more time there(they still own a house here in Indiana). He still holds a lifetime Indiana LTCH. The question he asked me( and which i could not answer with 100% confidence) is if he is now a Michigan resident and has an Indiana LTCH, any guns he wants to buy here in Indiana must go through an FFL? Right? He seems to be under the impression that since he has a LTCH that he can buy from non FFL sellers even though I implore him that this is not the case.
     

    Mgderf

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    If in fact he has declared Michigan as his state of official residence, his Indiana license to carry (even lifetime) is void, until such time as he declares Indiana as his residence again.

    Legally he is supposed to inform the Indiana State police when residency changes.
     

    SSGSAD

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    If in fact he has declared Michigan as his state of official residence, his Indiana license to carry (even lifetime) is void, until such time as he declares Indiana as his residence again.

    Legally he is supposed to inform the Indiana State police when residency changes.

    IIRC, he has 30 or 60 days to do so .....
     

    throttletony

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    I don't know how to answer your exact question -- but, having just moved to MI from IN, I can tell him to look out for the following:
    1) MI has a handgun registry - this applies to any firearm under 26" in length. No long gun registry. He'll need to go see local PD when he moves in (taking new MI ID, voter's card, etc.) and they fill out a "permission to purchase handgun sheet" and then essentially list themselves as the buyer and seller. I had to sit down for a 5 minute interview to begin this process. It was very odd, but just took time, and not $$.
    2) MI doesn't recognize IN's LTCH unless you're an IN resident. This means that as soon as he is a MI resident (assuming he'll get a MI DL, etc.) then he'll need to start the process for an MI CPL ("concealed pistol license")
    3) MI does allow for consitutional OPEN carry in public - with certain restricted areas, of course
     

    throttletony

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    If in fact he has declared Michigan as his state of official residence, his Indiana license to carry (even lifetime) is void, until such time as he declares Indiana as his residence again.

    Legally he is supposed to inform the Indiana State police when residency changes.

    Is this still the case? Can't out-of-staters get an IN LTCH?
    *I know that this can cause some problems with reciprocity, since some states only recognize a LTCH/CPL from your state of residence.

    Can you clarify or cite/link where it states that the "IN LTCH is void" until becoming an IN resident again? Thanks.
     

    Zoub

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    We did the same thing only Wisconsin instead. Your FIL is doing it wrong on a lot of levels. Tell him to remove his head from his ass and get his MI permit. Don't buy guns in Indiana unless Michigan allows it.

    Imagine having MI drivers license with one address, MI plates on his vehicle, IN carry permit and a handgun or two when he gets pulled over........in either state or worse, a third state.
     
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    If he wants to buy a firearm from a individual seller from outside Michigan, then it has to go through a FFL. For a handgun that FFL MUST be in Michigan, and depending on Michigan law, for a longgun then the FFL can be in either state.
    If he wants to buy a firearm from a FFL, if a handgun again it must go through a FFL in Michigan, longgun again depends on Michigan law.
    18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(3) and 27 CFR 478.29 are a couple of the pertinent regs.
    Basically, state line =FFL and LTCH ≠FFL
     

    BE Mike

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    Jul 23, 2008
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    Let him go to a gun shop in Indiana and try to buy a handgun using his Indiana Handgun License and Michigan Driver's License. If on the Form 4473 he lists his residence as the property he owns in Indiana, but isn't his abode, he'll be in violation of the law. That might change his hard headed thinking.:rolleyes: You did say that he is an in-law, right?
     

    RobbyMaQ

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    Prove it.
    The Indiana license to carry is rendered inactive (invalid) upon declaration of residency in a different state.
    It is no longer valid.
    No, I don't believe Indiana will issue a license to a non-resident.

    It is void while a resident of another state, but an LTCH can be reinstated for $20 if they become an Indiana resident again.


    It is possible to obtain a 4 year license as a non resident if you work full time in Indiana.
    From https://firearms.ariesportal.com/
    NON-RESIDENTS

    If the applicant is a resident of another state and has a regular place of business or employment in Indiana, the applicant applied to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant has a regular place of business or employment.

    The superintendent may not issue a lifetime qualified license or a lifetime unlimited license to a person who is a resident of another state. The superintendent may issue a four (4) year qualified license or a four (4) year unlimited license to a person who is a resident of another state and who has a regular place of business or employment in Indiana.

    The applicant must be at least 18 years old who:

    • does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44.1-3-1 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
    • does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
    • does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-78), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
    • is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
    • does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
    • does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
    • does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
    • does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
    • does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application;
    • does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
    • has not been involuntarily committed, other than a temporary commitment for observation or evaluation, to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority;
    • has not been the subject of a:
      1. ninety (90) day commitment as a result of proceeding under IC 12-26-6; or
      2. regular commitment under IC 12-26-7; or
      3. has not been found by a court to be mentally incompetent, including being found:
        1. not guilty by reason of insanity;
        2. guilty but mentally ill; or
        3. incompetent to stand trial.
     

    Mgderf

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    Well o.k. I had missed this thread. This only confuses the discussion.
    Can anyone provide a link to the Indiana code referring to this topic?
    No offense intended toward anyone, but I have had multiple conversations, with numerous different LEO, on a myriad of topics, and one thing is abundantly clear.
    Not all LEO have the correct answers to legal questions. Phone calls are great, but that offers no proof to the cop on the roadside when he's telling you that your license is invalid.
     

    chezuki

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    Well o.k. I had missed this thread. This only confuses the discussion.
    Can anyone provide a link to the Indiana code referring to this topic?

    No because there is no Indiana code for retracting or suspending a LIFETIME LTCH simply because someone moves out of state. There has been much regurgitation of the assumption that it somehow becomes invalid, but much evidence to the contrary... Including at least 2 letters from ISP firearms licensing and several people living out of state with valid Indoana LTCH's with their updated out of state address printed right on them.

    Living out of state does not make someone "not a proper person", nor does it make them dead... the two circumstances outlined in he IC for revoking a LTCH.
     

    chezuki

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    It is void while a resident of another state, but an LTCH can be reinstated for $20 if they become an Indiana resident again.

    No, it's not. It's still valid in Indiana, as well as any other state that recognizes IN's LTCH and does not have he stipulation that you must be a resident of the state from which you are licensed.

    You only EVER pay the $20 if you want a new card.
     

    PGRChaplain

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    To buy a firearm from a dealer you must produce ID. That being a drivers license from a State where you reside. They never ask for a LTCH, that went away a long time ago. If he's using a Michigan DL, that's his residence, he is no longer a Hoosier. Lucky he didn't move to Illinois, that's a real can of worms!
     

    Leo

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    Your State of permanent residence is the one from which you file your taxes. I have property in another state, but I currently reside in Indiana and pay my State taxes here as well as declare Indiana on my federal tax forms. If a person would buy a gun here and falsely misrepresent their residence, it would be pretty hard to defend yourself once you have filed taxes. If you are filing taxes in MI, IN licenses become invalid. I have lived in 4 states in the last 12 years. When I moved back to Indiana my LTCH became valid again. Even though I have property in Texas, my Texas CHL became invalid when I moved here.
     
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