Prohibited persons using the INGO Marketplace.

[churchmouse]

What I'm trying to get at is the question of whether we need to do more "policing" of potential buyers or not?

I have always had the understanding that a seller legally must not knowingly sell to a felon or improper person. Correct?

The question now becomes how much background checking is a seller required to do to to make sure? I was not under the impression that a seller was required to do any background checking on an otherwise assumed good guy potential buyer?


.

That is pretty much up to the individual. Now I can "Almost" understand asking to see a pink but not every gun owner has one nor are they required to. It is easy enough to find anything you desire on almost anyone you wish these days. But if members followed the path we laid down years ago none of this would be required. We could vette any member just perusing their posts and involvement.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It is easy enough to find anything you desire on almost anyone you wish these days.

Unless you want to find out which spam caller is calling your phone...

 

[churchmouse]

Unless you want to find out which spam caller is calling your phone...

Yeah that is suckage.

 

[bwframe]

What I'm trying to get at is the question of whether we need to do more "policing" of potential buyers or not?

I have always had the understanding that a seller legally must not knowingly sell to a felon or improper person. Correct?

The question now becomes how much background checking is a seller required to do to to make sure? I was not under the impression that a seller was required to do any background checking on an otherwise assumed good guy potential buyer?


.

I suspect this will be next. Proposals for universal background checks would require almost all firearms transactions in the United States to be recorded and go through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), closing what is sometimes called the private sale exemption. Universal background checks are not required by U.S. federal law, but at least 22 states and the District of Columbia currently

ONLY if we let them.

The rest of us know that "universal background checks" are the first step in firearms registration. Which is then the first step in firearms confiscation.

Just ask Whoopi...

 

[Cameramonkey]

That is pretty much up to the individual. Now I can "Almost" understand asking to see a pink but not every gun owner has one nor are they required to. It is easy enough to find anything you desire on almost anyone you wish these days. But if members followed the path we laid down years ago none of this would be required. We could vette any member just perusing their posts and involvement.

The pink slip is just a cheat. Its not perfect but it works. Kinda like how the cops were fighting not having to have one because it made their jobs easier; That pink permission slip just lets somebody know all is cool so they dont have to actually do the hard work.
(Not that we are required to "do the hard work" given we just have to NOT know they are prohibited)

 

[churchmouse]

ONLY if we let them.

The rest of us know that "universal background checks" are the first step in firearms registration. Which is then the first step in firearms confiscation.

Just ask Whoopi...

At the risk of body/gender shaming what I have to say about that POS and her pal Stacy Oh my god she huge Abrham's best be left unsaid.

 

[BigRed]

ONLY if we let them.

The rest of us know that "universal background checks" are the first step in firearms registration. Which is then the first step in firearms confiscation.

Just ask Whoopi...

That obese ***** is ugly from the core out.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In a similar vein, for those of us that deal on Armslist sometimes:

I've received four offers to purchase a firearm "as a gift for my dad," or "for my employees." or "for my co-worker." This puts you in the 'knowingly participating in a straw purchase' area. All in the past week or two.

Coincidence? Sting? Who knows. Just wanted to mention.

Buying a gun as a gift for someone else is *NOT* a straw purchase. It specifically says this in the instructions section of the 4473.

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn ,retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

 

[Cameramonkey]

Buying a gun as a gift for someone else is *NOT* a straw purchase. It specifically says this in the instructions section of the 4473.

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn ,retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

You are absolutely correct.

But I can see the Alphabet agencies using this to muddy the waters and run a sting. How do we truly know this is a gift and not a straw purchase?

Is this truly a gift in the legal sense, or in the literal Technical (with a capitol T) sense where the actual buyer is too stupid to use the interwebz? If its the latter, its illegal as grandpa is giving his cash to INGOer to buy him a gun. Exactly the same as the Abramski case. One which we can pretty much all say was bull . And given the courts have affirmed its illegal for a proper person to initiate a straw purchase, I wholeheartedly expect Alphabets to try to bust folks for it.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

The pink slip is just a cheat. Its not perfect but it works. Kinda like how the cops were fighting not having to have one because it made their jobs easier; That pink permission slip just lets somebody know all is cool so they dont have to actually do the hard work.
(Not that we are required to "do the hard work" given we just have to NOT know they are prohibited)

"Professional laziness".

 

[Aszerigan]

Buying a gun as a gift for someone else is *NOT* a straw purchase. It specifically says this in the instructions section of the 4473.

Yes, you're correct, But it's not the waters I want to wade into.

 

[Route 45]

I appreciate the site's admin and staff doing what they can to keep prohibited persons from using the marketplace. But to be honest, I'll be surprised if the classifieds even exist a few months from now, at least in its current form. I see universal background checks becoming law, sooner rather than later. I know the classifieds are a big part of INGO, so I hope it doesn't kill the forum if this happens.

 

[BigRed]

I appreciate the site's admin and staff doing what they can to keep prohibited persons from using the marketplace. But to be honest, I'll be surprised if the classifieds even exist a few months from now, at least in its current form. I see universal background checks becoming law, sooner rather than later. I know the classifieds are a big part of INGO, so I hope it doesn't kill the forum if this happens.

Imagine if private parties could run their own checks through nics.....Oh wait.....it's about control.

 

[HCRMPD1]

Thanks for the information. I wondered how long it would take after Armslist started charging for a membership to buy and sell firearms.

 

[Route 45]

Imagine if private parties could run their own checks through nics.....Oh wait.....it's about control.

Anyone with a name and date of birth can check someone's Indiana criminal case history through mycase.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[BigRed]

Anyone with a name and date of birth can check someone's Indiana criminal case history through mycase.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

But that is not good enough for centralizers.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Anyone with a name and date of birth can check someone's Indiana criminal case history through mycase.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Are you gonna give that info to somebody here in the classifieds? Just sayin...

 

[firecadet613]

Deal with a long term INGO member. Check their posy history, ask for an IN ID verify they have their pink card...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You are absolutely correct.

But I can see the Alphabet agencies using this to muddy the waters and run a sting. How do we truly know this is a gift and not a straw purchase?

Bull*****. The 'alphabet agencies' are once again scaling back on what charges they seek because the AUSA's office is returning to a softer on gun crime approach. They do not give two sideways farts about one guy/one gun cases of questionable validity that a jury *may even remotely* think is anything less than a solid guilty and are picking cases were the offender is doing other naughty stuff besides just being naughty with the gun. There is no sitting around 'stinging' random people online. If you're being set up for a sting for straw purchases, you are already being targeted specifically for prior criminal acts they have you on and just want that final nail in the coffin.

You don't have to "truly know" and WTF would a straw purchaser do anything to indicate it's going to someone else? You guys do you, but you are seeing boogiemen were they don't exist.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Bull*****. The 'alphabet agencies' are once again scaling back on what charges they seek because the AUSA's office is returning to a softer on gun crime approach. They do not give two sideways farts about one guy/one gun cases of questionable validity that a jury *may even remotely* think is anything less than a solid guilty and are picking cases were the offender is doing other naughty stuff besides just being naughty with the gun. There is no sitting around 'stinging' random people online. If you're being set up for a sting for straw purchases, you are already being targeted specifically for prior criminal acts they have you on and just want that final nail in the coffin.

You don't have to "truly know" and WTF would a straw purchaser do anything to indicate it's going to someone else? You guys do you, but you are seeing boogiemen were they don't exist.

Yeah, some of us just have no trust in .gov, and are also too pretty for PMITA prison.