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    buckwacker

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    Good grief. :rolleyes:

    Listen to yourself - you're complaining that president said a prayer in public. Is there anything he can do that you won't complain about?


    Presidents often utter complete lies in public, I don't want teachers doing that either. Apples and orange.
    Again, with the twisting of words. You're a smart guy, at least you seem to be, and this is beneath you.

    I didn't complain that he offered a prayer, I complained about the simple minded hypocrisy of those who refuse to acknowledge a "violation of church and state" when their guy does it. If you define "separation of church and state" in that fashion, at least be honest and avoid politically expedient hypocrisy.
     

    buckwacker

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    Biden isn't a Trump Conservative, so all complaints are valid. And BTW welcome to INGO.
    Again kut, you're smarter than this. This is a straw man argument erected to redirect a line of reasoning you don't want to address. I don't care if he offered a prayer, and you know that, my criticism is of the sycophantic hypocrisy of ignoring a violation of one's ideals when your guy does it.
     

    CampingJosh

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    I specifically said participation, being there, was voluntary. Do I now need to start defining words in common parlance in every post I make so that those attempting to twist my words have a more difficult time doing so?
    There's not really voluntary participation in a place with compulsory attendance.

    The high school near me has FCA meetings after school. Some teachers and school employees are there, but they don't lead. The same school employees do lead Young Life weekly at a different location. It's mostly the same students. Nobody cares.

    Government employees can still be religious in public; they just don't get to use their government authority for anything that even slightly coerces people to participate.
     

    buckwacker

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    There's not really voluntary participation in a place with compulsory attendance.

    The high school near me has FCA meetings after school. Some teachers and school employees are there, but they don't lead. The same school employees do lead Young Life weekly at a different location. It's mostly the same students. Nobody cares.

    Government employees can still be religious in public; they just don't get to use their government authority for anything that even slightly coerces people to participate.
    I'm not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse or if im not being clear. I specifically stated participation in said hypothetical activity was voluntary, in the same way participation in sports or the math club is voluntary. Or are you saying that because school attendance is mandatory, so is participation in sports and the math club?
     

    CampingJosh

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    I'm not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse or if im not being clear. I specifically stated participation in said hypothetical activity was voluntary, in the same way participation in sports or the math club is voluntary. Or are you saying that because school attendance is mandatory, so is participation in sports and the math club?
    And I'm saying that government employees who have authority over people don't get to use their government office to lead those people in religious anything. A teacher can lead a voluntary Bible study with other teachers. A principal probably can't.

    You said in school. When in the public school building, teachers are a government authority figure over students.
     

    phylodog

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    They should do it anyway if they want to. The left does whatever the **** it wants to and nothing happens. **** the rules, liberals claim to be all about equality, if they can **** on the constitution at will and allow their constituents to destroy cities and livelihoods why should anyone give a rats ass about breaking rules?
     

    buckwacker

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    And I'm saying that government employees who have authority over people don't get to use their government office to lead those people in religious anything. A teacher can lead a voluntary Bible study with other teachers. A principal probably can't.

    You said in school. When in the public school building, teachers are a government authority figure over students.
    So you do understand and are just being hypocritical. Otherwise presidents can only lead prayers with other presidents by your reasoning.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Again, with the twisting of words. You're a smart guy, at least you seem to be, and this is beneath you.

    I didn't complain that he offered a prayer, I complained about the simple minded hypocrisy of those who refuse to acknowledge a "violation of church and state" when their guy does it. If you define "separation of church and state" in that fashion, at least be honest and avoid politically expedient hypocrisy.
    I don't recall any high-ranking democrats seriously saying that a prayer coming out of a politicians mouth is a violation of the 1A. (if I'm wrong, you can correct me.) I'm also 100% that congress will continue to be opened with an invocation.

    Did anyone complain about politicians praying in the last four years?


    It ain't hypocracy if you are projecting.
     

    JeepHammer

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    Not my president! In the face of clear fraud that the systems failed to investigate and find the truth, this is a fraudulent president...

    Here you go, fresh from Faux 'News'...
    141161591_4249497665066642_6418313279869709182_o.jpg

    AND, from the completely 'Crazy' side of things...


    A little factoid that caught my eye,
    Out of the 132 identified capitol hill 'Insurgents' (at that time),
    Over 2/3 never graduated highschool...
    I guess we know who the Qanon audience is! ;)
     

    JeepHammer

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    Biden will truly make history as the most illegitimate president in the history of this great nation.

    You can have each other.

    I’ll be opting out, thank you.

    I thought that would be Trump,
    Lost the popular vote TWICE,
    Impeached TWICE, 123424120_10224045214175425_8991465460173020128_n.jpg

    But then again, actual facts don't seem to matter to supporters...
     

    buckwacker

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    I don't recall any high-ranking democrats seriously saying that a prayer coming out of a politicians mouth is a violation of the 1A. (if I'm wrong, you can correct me.) I'm also 100% that congress will continue to be opened with an invocation.

    Did anyone complain about politicians praying in the last four years?


    It ain't hypocracy if you are projecting.
    No, the point was, it's hypocritical to get offended when someone on staff in a public school offers a prayer in a setting where attendance is voluntary, or where a valedictorian is forbidden mentioning God or offering a prayer in a grad speech, when those same people who seek to erase the rights of those people to do so, don't bat an eye when a president prays or Congress offers an invocation. I guess it's ok for Congress to do so as long as one ends with amen and awomen when doing so.
     

    JettaKnight

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    No, the point was, it's hypocritical to get offended when someone on staff in a public school offers a prayer in a setting where attendance is voluntary, or where a valedictorian is forbidden mentioning God or offering a prayer in a grad speech, when those same people who seek to erase the rights of those people to do so, don't bat an eye when a president prays or Congress offers an invocation. I guess it's ok for Congress to do so as long as one ends with amen and awomen when doing so.
    Well, OK, but that's nothing new.
     
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