Practicing the draw and ready position with context

[gregkl]

Not sure but it looks like this dude wraps a tight support thumb over the slide on almost every presentation. I don’t advise this as in actual shooting you may enable an oversteer and slide interference. Just an observation.

The "try this" was to help a fellow be able to watch the video.

 

[Tactically Fat]

LOL. If you think my name is odd; just wait until you actually meet me.

Weems is an alternate spelling of Wemyss, which means "cave" in Gaelic. The area my family controlled in Scotland has a famous cave, and thus we got the name.

Nineteen people attended Dave's one an only instructor course, and I received a battlefield promotion to be #20. Of those, only a few are actually teaching the Handgun Combatives courses.

The most active is Dave Jenkins who is based out of Rochester, NY.

Doug Bane and Spaulding's son-in-law, Daryn Cherry, are occaisionally offering courses at their club in Miamisburg, OH.

Rich Nance is based out of CA.

Tim Kelly is based out of NC. Dan Brady does a lot of stuff with Tim.

Scotty Cronin is based in OH.

Brannan LeBeuf is in New Orleans.

I don't think any of the others have estalished businesses.

Holy crap.

Thank you!

- also a descendant of some long-dead and forgotten Scotsmen from the Ayr area.

 

[cbhausen]

Any Mantis X10 Elite users out there try the Holster Draw Analysis? I have not (yet) but it looks interesting:

 

[MCgrease08]

Ready positions seem to be a popular topic lately.

Here's a conversation about ready positions versus movement positions with a rifle, and a drill to get better shooting from both at various distances.

 

[bwframe]

I used to disagree with folks who said if they were gonna draw, they were gonna shoot. I was pretty stubborn on the idea that I might be able to intimidate the end to whatever bad situation caused me to draw my pistol. I might be able to talk an armed subject down at gunpoint?

The more I train and study, the more I understand that my mind has changed on this subject. I do now lean heavily on leaving my pistol holstered, until it's time to shoot.

I never say never, but plan to err on the side of keeping my pistol in the holster until it's go time. When you bring your gun out, you are exposed and committed. I'll not commit until it's my choice rather than someone else's.

With my gun in the holster, I can take my hand off of it and walk away should the circumstance go that way. It might not be that simple when everyone around has already seen your pistol out and ready to go? Bad guys, good guys, they all have to deal with you when you have committed.

As always, I try to keep an open mind. Keep us in the loop of how this goes.

 

[Trapper Jim]

The Peacock Dance of one who displays for intimidation or even too early in a deescalate notion often does not lead to a good outcome for him. It reminds me of the old joke…do you know why your pistol has been machined and crafted so elegantly???? So it doesn’t hurt so much when you have it shoved up your arse.

 

[cedartop]

I used to disagree with folks who said if they were gonna draw, they were gonna shoot. I was pretty stubborn on the idea that I might be able to intimidate the end to whatever bad situation caused me to draw my pistol. I might be able to talk an armed subject down at gunpoint?

The more I train and study, the more I understand that my mind has changed on this subject. I do now lean heavily on leaving my pistol holstered, until it's time to shoot.

I never say never, but plan to err on the side of keeping my pistol in the holster until it's go time. When you bring your gun out, you are exposed and committed. I'll not commit until it's my choice rather than someone else's.

With my gun in the holster, I can take my hand off of it and walk away should the circumstance go that way. It might not be that simple when everyone around has already seen your pistol out and ready to go? Bad guys, good guys, they all have to deal with you when you have committed.

As always, I try to keep an open mind. Keep us in the loop of how this goes.

I do not believe in using the pistol as a deterrent, but trust me, there are many times when you might have the need to draw but not shoot. If this were not the case I would have a number of dead bodies in my past. I will admit, that is I think a more likely scenario in Law Enforcement than it is in regular everyday life. I still think anybody who says if their pistol comes out someone is going down is completely wrong. Yes you have to be of the mindset that you may have to shoot someone or it does you no good to carry a gun, but you have to be ready for many options.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I do not believe in using the pistol as a deterrent, but trust me, there are many times when you might have the need to draw but not shoot. If this were not the case I would have a number of dead bodies in my past. I will admit, that is I think a more likely scenario in Law Enforcement than it is in regular everyday life. I still think anybody who says if their pistol comes out someone is going down is completely wrong. Yes you have to be of the mindset that you may have to shoot someone or it does you no good to carry a gun, but you have to be ready for many options.

This is one of the reasons I carry in leather. There have been times when I need a quiet presentation.

 

[bwframe]

I do not believe in using the pistol as a deterrent, but trust me, there are many times when you might have the need to draw but not shoot. If this were not the case I would have a number of dead bodies in my past. I will admit, that is I think a more likely scenario in Law Enforcement than it is in regular everyday life. I still think anybody who says if their pistol comes out someone is going down is completely wrong. Yes you have to be of the mindset that you may have to shoot someone or it does you no good to carry a gun, but you have to be ready for many options.

"Trust me"?
Sorry, pet peeve. Nothing personal, my friend.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. To be clear though, I was not specifying when the gun comes out that someone will go down. I do not buy into that thinking.

What I am saying is that I will not be intentionally drawing without a need to shoot. Very unlikely that I will draw to a ready position, as I will likely be using hand gripping holstered pistol as the "ready position" in that circumstance.

I am not law enforcement, I don't train to be law enforcement. Quite honestly, part of my reasoning to not get my gun out early is to not be shot by law enforcement or other carriers prompted to decide whether I'm a good guy or bad.

 

[cedartop]

"Trust me"?
Sorry, pet peeve. Nothing personal, my friend.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. To be clear though, I was not specifying when the gun comes out that someone will go down. I do not buy into that thinking.

What I am saying is that I will not be intentionally drawing without a need to shoot. Very unlikely that I will draw to a ready position, as I will likely be using hand gripping holstered pistol as the "ready position" in that circumstance.

I am not law enforcement, I don't train to be law enforcement. Quite honestly, part of my reasoning to not get my gun out early is to not be shot by law enforcement or other carriers prompted to decide whether I'm a good guy or bad.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I am not sold on drawing to a ready position either but thought it may be a good topic of conversation. As we know there are definitely differences between LE and non. I have never had to draw a gun on another person in a non LE circumstance.

 

[cedartop]

This is one of the reasons I carry in leather. There have been times when I need a quiet presentation.

In an effort to be a better person and keep an open mind because I have changed my mind about a lot of things in the gun world, could I ask what your training and background is? You seem to have a very different opinion on a lot of things that you defend vociferously and I have been curious as to how you came about them. No offense intended.

 

[bwframe]

I don't think we are in disagreement. I am not sold on drawing to a ready position either but thought it may be a good topic of conversation. As we know there are definitely differences between LE and non. I have never had to draw a gun on another person in a non LE circumstance.

We are not.

It's an excellent topic of conversation sir! Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Trapper Jim]

In an effort to be a better person and keep an open mind because I have changed my mind about a lot of things in the gun world, could I ask what your training and background is? You seem to have a very different opinion on a lot of things that you defend vociferously and I have been curious as to how you came about them. No offense intended.

No offense taken. However that long VWord almost got me. As I have stated before, on any of my opinions, I will be glad to demonstrate the why side by each on the range with any opposing carry gun thoughts you or any on here may have and I welcome the debate as it might change my open mind as well. I trained back in the day with Ray Chapman and Rob Leatham and many other modules but the real knowledge comes from being a student of the gun and it’s branches for a lifetime of shooting. But enough about me….

 

[cbhausen]

I just came across this article, short and simple regarding the phases and technique of combat pistol draw, presentation and re-holstering. The Mantis X10 Elite system analyzes the draw in a similar way and logs the data (time in each phase and comparison of weapon path on consecutive draw strokes in each session):

Presenting the Pistol/The Combat Draw Stroke — Green Ops

This is both a loose set of instructions and/or considerations on a safe and efficient methodology on how to consistently and quickly bring a pistol or a concealed pistol into immediate defensive readiness. As with all firearms training, safety is paramount. Ensure your gun handling is safe. Always

www.green-ops.com

Holster Draw Analysis

We are excited to bring Holster Draw Analysis to the Mantis X10 Elite! Mantis X10 is the first device to accurately and reliably give you access to unprecedented data to help you improve your holster draw capabilities. Holster draw analysis is available by connecting your MantisX app to a...

mantisx.com

 

[Twangbanger]

"Trust me"?
Sorry, pet peeve. Nothing personal, my friend.

I don't disagree with most of what you said. To be clear though, I was not specifying when the gun comes out that someone will go down. I do not buy into that thinking.

What I am saying is that I will not be intentionally drawing without a need to shoot. Very unlikely that I will draw to a ready position, as I will likely be using hand gripping holstered pistol as the "ready position" in that circumstance.

I am not law enforcement, I don't train to be law enforcement. Quite honestly, part of my reasoning to not get my gun out early is to not be shot by law enforcement or other carriers prompted to decide whether I'm a good guy or bad.

I think "hand gripping holstered pistol" is an option more people should consider working with.

Did you watch the video in the OP of the "Hard2Hurt" thread? I think many people would not fare much better in that Craig Douglas exercise than he did.

 

[John Murphy]

Brian is an incredible instructor.

You're setting yourself up for disaster if you shoot every time you come out of the holster in a draw stroke when you're training. Even if you have a 1.25 second draw to what I call "your first, best shot" that is a lot of time for the situation to have changed.

 

[Twangbanger]

Brian is an incredible instructor.

You're setting yourself up for disaster if you shoot every time you come out of the holster in a draw stroke when you're training. Even if you have a 1.25 second draw to what I call "your first, best shot" that is a lot of time for the situation to have changed.

A good observation. And in addition to the "Shoot every time the gun comes out" philosophy, I'd also like to call attention to a related viewpoint I seem to be hearing more of, which I would characterize as: "Wait until 100% certain of deadly threat before touching gun."

Going back to the video posted in the "Hard2Hurt" thread, I think a corollary to this would be, that if you "wait" until it's a "for sure" shoot situation, to get your gun out of the holster, you could be similarly setting yourself up for disaster. I don't know where this idea is coming from, but it seems to be a really prevalent idea with a lot of people. It seems to be oriented toward discouraging people from getting their guns out frivolously, which is not bad reasoning, but all the nuance seems to have been stripped out of it, to the point where it seems to risk training people to not be able to get their guns out "in time" when things really go bad.

I think if we're intelligent, thought-activated people who don't go to bars and get in stupid mouthing matches with inebriated people, or involve ourselves in similar situations, then we should absolutely trust ourselves to be able to judge when it's time to get the gun out, even if it's not a "for sure" shoot situation yet. I may be interpreting wrongly, but I sense a lot of "no draw until time to shoot" mentality in folks who post here. People seem to have been taught a very clearly-defined sense of how their options narrow when they draw a gun, and yet, they don't seem to have a similar awareness of how much their options are narrowed, when they wait until the last possible moment to employ the gun, against a threat who isn't going away. And there just doesn't seem to be a balance.

I think the videos like the one referenced above definitely show, where even experienced hand-to-hand people really go at it against someone who won't stop pressing, and wait until the last possible moment before involving a gun, it often turns out badly. Even to the point where they may as well not have had a gun at all.

 

[jlw]

I do not believe in using the pistol as a deterrent, but trust me, there are many times when you might have the need to draw but not shoot. If this were not the case I would have a number of dead bodies in my past. I will admit, that is I think a more likely scenario in Law Enforcement than it is in regular everyday life. I still think anybody who says if their pistol comes out someone is going down is completely wrong. Yes you have to be of the mindset that you may have to shoot someone or it does you no good to carry a gun, but you have to be ready for many options.

Brian is an incredible instructor.

You're setting yourself up for disaster if you shoot every time you come out of the holster in a draw stroke when you're training. Even if you have a 1.25 second draw to what I call "your first, best shot" that is a lot of time for the situation to have changed.

Yup. The Force Science Institute's research on shots in the back comes to mind.

Get this: We are often shooting at the past.

 

[John Murphy]

Here's a video I made this past May.

 

[bwframe]

Here's a video I made this past May.

Good stuff sir. Thanks for posting!