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  • lrahm

    Master
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    May 17, 2011
    3,584
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    Newburgh
    At the risk of politicizing a recent tragedy (something that the other side doesn't mind doing), it is commonly thought that police presence has a deterrent effect. Generally, that may be true for some crimes.

    But, when it comes to extremely violent crimes, that deterrent effect is reduced to the point of non-existence. The guy that got pulled over and took some shots at the IMPD officer didn't care that he was a police officer (or maybe, that was the reason).

    Police play an important role in society. But, they cannot guarantee the safety of any particular person in any particular place at any particular time. In fact, they are legally not liable for any such protection.

    Amen. Rep as soon as I can. Ambushes are now becoming a new thing. Gone is the sacred feeling that you don't screw with the police. Groups now wait for officers enmass to attack.
     

    Titanium_Frost

    Grandmaster
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    32   0   0
    Feb 6, 2011
    7,601
    83
    Southwestern Indiana
    I have yet to see my tank. It has to be better than what I have.

    Lonnie, are they going to get you one of the new slick black cars? Your cruiser has seen better days and I doubt if those lights will last much longer.

    I wish the "POLICE" on the side of the cruisers was neon, or reflective though. Hard to see speed traps at night now... :xmad:
     

    lrahm

    Master
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    May 17, 2011
    3,584
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    Newburgh
    Lonnie, are they going to get you one of the new slick black cars? Your cruiser has seen better days and I doubt if those lights will last much longer.

    I wish the "POLICE" on the side of the cruisers was neon, or reflective though. Hard to see speed traps at night now... :xmad:

    That is a bunch of years down the road for me.
     

    lrahm

    Master
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    0   0   0
    May 17, 2011
    3,584
    113
    Newburgh
    Man, that sucks. Hey maybe the new chief will get you guys tanks!

    Are you looking forward to a new chief BTW?

    I want a Bradley with twin .50's. Throw in a rocket launcher. Paint it black with that "Police" decal on it. I also need the decal "in partnership with the community".

    As far as the chief, we will learn at 1:30.
     

    Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
    Site Supporter
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    7   0   0
    Apr 26, 2008
    18,096
    77
    Where's the bacon?
    Speaking operationally in a political sphere, you have to discredit the police, or at least the notion that the police can/are able to protect students.

    If you do not, then whatever people think of the politicians/puppetmasters in an university administration they will trust the police. "Well, that is Viriginia, OUR police are much different."

    I am not saying it should be relished but if we have any hope of passing campus carry then you have to take down the strongest chess piece that our opponents have.

    Discredit the notion that police can/are able to protect students and/or faculty/staff, yes. That's something I can get behind. Discrediting the police themselves is the point with which I took issue. You want to make it clear that they can only truly prevent a crime if they happen to be present when it's committed (which takes a lot of luck), I'm with you there. That's just a limitation of being human, and the other half of it is that at every crime, two people are present: One is the criminal, the other is the victim, and only one of those will do anything to stop the crime. When the victim of the crime is disarmed, he or she is helpless. When the victim is armed, he or she becomes the "intended" victim, as s/he now has a chance of stopping the crime in progress... and THAT's what's supposed to be the goal.

    Ultimately, we're arguing semantics, but they're important semantics. Saying you're attacking the police, even only politically, is going to be used by the antis to paint us as anti-law and as vigilantes, despite nothing being possibly further from the truth. Pointing out that as good and as dedicated as they are, they cannot be where the crime happens when the crime happens most of the time cannot be used against the side of truth in any way I can see.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    Hammerhead

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Jul 2, 2010
    2,780
    38
    Bartholomew County
    I think a lot of what Kirk is advocating is due to the comments made by Chief Cox when the PSG was throwing together it's decision on campus carry at PU. Chief Cox gave a litany of reasons (excuses, really) as to why campus carry is bad. Among them was "the police can't tell who's the bad guy in an extended gunfight they roll up on" and that "the police can protect us."

    When Kirk repeats that the police should be discredited, this is the reason why. The unfortunate tragedy proves that if someone is determined enough, someone is going to die. In this case, it was one unfortunate police officer for no good reason. Half an hour later, when things finally were coming together, they found only one victim (assuming the gunman shot himself). In that half an hour they had no idea what the true intentions of the shooter, and had no idea what the final body count would be.

    If it takes that half an hour to provide a response big enough to fight back appropriately, the outcome could be a whole lot worse, as evidenced by previous tragedies.

    The arguments that the police are there to protect us and no one should be allowed to based upon the imaginary boundary outside a college campus needs to be destroyed repetitively and with vigor. If not because it's farcical, because the facts prove otherwise.
     
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