Police Response to Latest VA Tech Murders, Improved!

Kirk Freeman

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Wow, what a response! Like greased lightning the campus boys in blue (well, dark grey, it is the South) took 14 minutes to respond to the Murder of a fellow officer and 22 minutes to alert Virginia Tech students.

If this does not kill the lie that the police can respond to active shooters on campus or madmen or whatever the police parlance is now, nothing will. Purdue students need to get this out to defeat the nonsense that Chief Cox is spouting and this needed to be pointed out repeatedly (maybe giant posters) to the Indiana General Assembly this session.

"Just before 12:30 pm VT Police were notified by a witness that one of their police officers had been shot on campus. VT police officers were dispatched to the scene of the shooting at that time."

Unbelievable. This department has been training, and spending boo coo bucks, on this exact scenario.

14 minutes. 14 minutes and they are patrolling a college campus the size of a postage stamp. Oh, btw, it was the Virigina State Police that finally showed up, not VTPD.

22 minutes. 22 minutes to text a stupid warning to VT's disarmed student body.

How much more blood will the police allow to be spilled before they drop their opposition to campus carry? We have suffered enough, let them fight back, officer.

VT Improved Alerting to an Active Shooter – Only 22 Minutes this time. | All Nine Yards
 
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j706

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Wow that is crazy...nothing should take 14 minutes. It also sounds like who ever dispatches for the campus is really on the ball to. Not sure yet if the officer had already cleared the stop but one article said dispatch could not contact the officer after 15 minutes and sent someone to look for him. If he had cleared the stop why would they be checking on him? If he had not cleared the stop where was the person he stopped for 15 minutes? Something seems weird IMO.
 

TaunTaun

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I'm starting back on track for my Bachelor's degree again, and I'm going to IUSB through the Purdue affiliate there. This is one of the things that really worries me. Technically, you can request permission to carry from the campus police chief if you have a LTCH, but I havent heard of one being approved. The campus policy is even very vaque and ambiguous as far as other weapons go. It doesn't specify knives, blades, pepper spray, extendable batons, only that if campus police deem it a weapon, then it is not allowed.

I'd like to be able to do more than just carry a tactical pen in my tactical pocket protector. The only real alternative in the area to IUSB campus is MAYBE Goshen College. Sorry, but that one aint gonna happen. A school that even thinks the star spangled banner is too violent definately is not gonna allow weapons. Even WITH the professor Miller killing...
 

jgreiner

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When I was in college....our campus safety officer had guns, until one night one of them was investigating an alarm in the admin building...and shot at what they thought was an intruder. It turned out to be a statue of Abe Lincoln, and they managed to shoot off his foot. After that, no more guns.

I agree completely with Kirk. Relying on campus cops to protect you is a waste of time, and a foolish endeavor. By the time they get there, you are dead. It's time to let students AND employees protect themselves, rather than denying them that RIGHT.
 
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When you think about how much damage one man with a gun and several mags could do in 14 minutes to an unarmed and unaware group of people it makes you sick.
 

Indy_Guy_77

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I'm starting back on track for my Bachelor's degree again, and I'm going to IUSB through the Purdue affiliate there. This is one of the things that really worries me. Technically, you can request permission to carry from the campus police chief if you have a LTCH, but I havent heard of one being approved. The campus policy is even very vaque and ambiguous as far as other weapons go. It doesn't specify knives, blades, pepper spray, extendable batons, only that if campus police deem it a weapon, then it is not allowed.

I'd like to be able to do more than just carry a tactical pen in my tactical pocket protector. The only real alternative in the area to IUSB campus is MAYBE Goshen College. Sorry, but that one aint gonna happen. A school that even thinks the star spangled banner is too violent definately is not gonna allow weapons. Even WITH the professor Miller killing...

You do realize that it's perfectly legal for you to carry your firearm with you on campus...right?

-J-
 

jedi

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I'm starting back on track for my Bachelor's degree again, and I'm going to IUSB through the Purdue affiliate there. This is one of the things that really worries me. Technically, you can request permission to carry from the campus police chief if you have a LTCH, but I havent heard of one being approved. The campus policy is even very vaque and ambiguous as far as other weapons go. It doesn't specify knives, blades, pepper spray, extendable batons, only that if campus police deem it a weapon, then it is not allowed.

I'd like to be able to do more than just carry a tactical pen in my tactical pocket protector. The only real alternative in the area to IUSB campus is MAYBE Goshen College. Sorry, but that one aint gonna happen. A school that even thinks the star spangled banner is too violent definately is not gonna allow weapons. Even WITH the professor Miller killing...

You do realize that it's perfectly legal for you to carry your firearm with you on campus...right?

-J-

^This! If you are found with a firearm at purdue (as a student) you will, however, be kicked out of the school as you are violating school policy.

If you are so concerned about that (being kicked out) then might I suggest you just wear full body armor while in school. Won't help you in fighting back, per say, but will help you in getting off the campus (ie. running away) to some degree.

-Jedi
 

wsenefeld

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I went to Purdue and was in Air Force ROTC while taking their aeronautical engineering program. I would say nearly 25% of ROTC would concealed carry on campus and to class. The fear of expulsion did not outweigh the desire to protect myself. During the colder months I carried under arm and wore my carhartt. Warmer months, I carried on campus but didn't risk carrying to class being that my only firearm at the time was a 4" XD .45
 

Kirk Freeman

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Please remember the policeman who was murdered protecting the students.

We will.

Let us remember the Virginia Tech students that were murdered because school administrators wanted to protect an inane "no guns" policy.

For four years the students of Virginia Tech were promised that the VTPD would/could protect them. Safety alerts, increased training, more treats and toys for the coppers, computer networks--it was all a feckless fraud.

Allowing the students to protect themselves costs nothing to the taxpayers and is many more times effective than the police (even if the police want to do a good job).

How many students would have died in 14 minutes? This question needs to be put to the campus police chiefs that show up to testify against campus carry in Indianapolis.
 
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jgreiner

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^This! If you are found with a firearm at purdue (as a student) you will, however, be kicked out of the school as you are violating school policy.

If you are so concerned about that (being kicked out) then might I suggest you just wear full body armor while in school. Won't help you in fighting back, per say, but will help you in getting off the campus (ie. running away) to some degree.

-Jedi

And we employees face termination for violating that administrative rule.
 
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Back when I was a shift commander in Cincinnati PD we had a document called the Civil Disturbance Operational Plan, or CDOP (pronounced SEE-dop). It contained the various orders and plans to be placed in effect in the event of riots, natural disasters, invasion by aliens, whatever.

One thing it contained was a list, by district and beat, of all the vital facilities that would have to be protected in case of civil disturbance, such as gas & electric, telephone switching equipment, city hall, etc.

One day I counted up all these locations. If I had every single man from all three shifts available to me, I couldn't have scratched the surface of that list even assigning just ONE man to each place.

I learned a powerful lesson that day. We didn't have a Civil Disturbance Operational Plan in order to be able to handle emergencies. We had it so that we could say that we had a plan...there was no hope of us ever actually implementing the thing.

Every college wants the parents of their students to think that the campus police can handle a shooter on campus, so every campus has a "plan" for dealing with such situations. Why? Because someone in the college administration told them to make one.

These plans are crap, and they exist for the same reason that our CDOP plan did, to blow smoke up the gullible and unsuspecting asses of the public.

Say I were to call the chief of any campus police department right now and say, "Hey chief...I'm going to shoot up your campus, your students and your staff. I might come today. I might come tomorrow, or next week, or next year. But I'm coming."

What can any campus police department do about this?

Nothing...absolutely nothing.

College campuses are wide open. There are no fences or walls, no checkpoints, no force fields. Hundreds of people come and go as they please at all hours. They all look the same. A campus simply can't be made secure without using severe measures that would make it impossible for the school to operate.

The only thing that can stop a spree shooter, on a campus or anywhere else, is a citizen who is both mentally and physically equipped to drop that shooter, right there and right then.

Campuses cannot be made safe...only STUDENTS can be made safe, and that can only be accomplished by allowing them, as individuals, to provide for their own safety by being armed.

Until this is permitted, colleges will be magnets for armed nutjobs.
 

jgreiner

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College campuses are wide open. There are no fences or walls, no checkpoints, no force fields. Hundreds of people come and go as they please at all hours. They all look the same. A campus simply can't be made secure without using severe measures that would make it impossible for the school to operate.

The only thing that can stop a spree shooter, on a campus or anywhere else, is a citizen who is both mentally and physically equipped to drop that shooter, right there and right then.

Campuses cannot be made safe...only STUDENTS can be made safe, and that can only be accomplished by allowing them, as individuals, to provide for their own safety by being armed.

Until this is permitted, colleges will be magnets for armed nutjobs.

Amen, and VERY well said!! Rep inbound :)
 

Kutnupe14

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I'm calling BS on 14 mins to reach a "downed" officer.

Edit: That article has all types of stuff wrong.

The perp walked to the officers window and shot him, following a traffic stop. The perp wasn't the person who had been stopped.
He had called in a traffic stop @ 12:15, after going for so long without clearing the stop, dispatch S52'd him and there was no answer. At that point, other officers start moving that way (this happens a lot). At 12:30, they are actually informed that an officer is "down,"... by 1pm, the whole ordeal is over and a statement released.

If the guy called in a traffic stop at 12:15, he won't typically won't be S52'd until about 10 minutes later, so that starts the timeframe @ least @ 12:25. Officers aren't panicking at that point thinking the worse, because as I've said, this happens all the time (officer out of car w/dead radio, not paying attention, talking, ect). When notified @ 12:30 that an officer had been shot, that's when things "kick up." Within 30 minutes, the entire situation was resolved.

Poorly written article with someone that has an agenda. I agree that students should have firearms on campus, but if you want to make a point, don't tell half the story.
 
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Kirk Freeman

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I'm calling BS on 14 mins to reach a "downed" officer.

Okey-dokey, we'll go with 15 minutes. How many extra students die in that minute?

15 minutes for a fellow officer on a postage stamp campus. What if the killer were murdering students? How long for them?

End the carry prohibition now.
 

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