Pistol Caliber Carbine

[bobzilla]

I still want one in .45ACP. I'd love a Marlin Camp carbine but those are getting rare and $$$

 

[spencer rifle]

From a previous 9mm carbine thread:
OK, I'll go out on a limb - Calico 9mm! 50 to 100 rounds, bottom eject, fully ambi, not too heavy. Somewhat difficult to reload, but who needs that with 100 rounds? You just have to find one that's not a jam-o-matic. Awkward cheek weld, removing the mag unzeros the sights. Ian recently did a video with a Calico that had a custom-made rail section that attached to the front sight support for a red dot. Now I want one of those, but the machine shop that made it for him won't answer my emails.

We have several, besides the Calico:
Uzi (a bit heavy but very accurate, and it's an Uzi! Quite controllable.)

MP5 clone (no much bad to say about it, except the SBR is an NFA item)

Ruger PC9 (the old one that takes P-series mags - got for $400 with ghost ring sights as a police turn-in. Heavy but utterly reliable and fairly accurate. Will handle +P+ without issues. Set up like an M1 Carbine. Problem is that it only takes Ruger P-series mags. The new ones take Glock and modern Ruger mags, but no possibility to take the old P-series.)

Sub 2000 (the old one - originally took S&W mags but modified the Ruger P-series so they fit. Awkward cheek weld and strange cocking, but folds small.)

Sub 2000 (the new one that takes G19 mags - haven't tried it yet)

 

[cosermann]

I'm staying away from the 16" barrels though...apparently 9mm reaches its peak velocity somewhere in the 12" barrel length range and, after that, 'drag' from the barrel tends to start slowing the bullet down even before it reaches the muzzle of the barrel.

Not according to Ballistics by the inch:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

While one does get most of the velocity gains by 12" of barrel (i.e. the vel starts to level off), seems like most loads continue to rise a bit.

8 of the 10 loads tested by BBI had their max velocity with 16-17" of barrel.
One topped out at 15".
One at 13".
None had their max velocity at 12" of bbl. Although all had achieved at least 92% of their potential velocity by 12", there was still, on average about 3.7% velocity remaining to be squeezed out of the load (15 to 108 fps, or about 52 fps on avg).

But, the handiness of a shorter barrel might outweigh the extra velocity, depending on one's intended use/priorities.

 

[bobzilla]

Not according to Ballistics by the inch:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

While one does get most of the velocity gains by 12" of barrel (i.e. the vel starts to level off), seems like most loads continue to rise a bit.

8 of the 10 loads tested by BBI had their max velocity with 16-17" of barrel.
One topped out at 15".
One at 13".
None had their max velocity at 12" of bbl. Although all had achieved at least 92% of their potential velocity by 12", there was still, on average about 3.7% velocity remaining to be squeezed out of the load (15 to 108 fps, or about 52 fps on avg).

But, the handiness of a shorter barrel might outweigh the extra velocity, depending on one's intended use/priorities.

Using that site I learned a 10" .45acp 200gr+P has as much muzzle energy as a 11" .223 55gr. Now I want a .45ACP SBR thompson

 

[LEaSH]

I'd totally dig a De Lisle carbine.

 

[Amishman44]

Okay Dokey...apparently I was seeing a 'whole' photo whereas everyone else was only seeing a 'partial' photo...so here's another shot...hopefully, this one is a full-length (width) pic?

 

[Amishman44]

Using that site I learned a 10" .45acp 200gr+P has as much muzzle energy as a 11" .223 55gr. Now I want a .45ACP SBR Thompson

Wow...

 

[cg21]

Okay Dokey...apparently I was seeing a 'whole' photo whereas everyone else was only seeing a 'partial' photo...so here's another shot...hopefully, this one is a full-length (width) pic?

So when scrolling it’s a partial pic…. When I clicked reply I see the whole thing

 

[Route 45]

Using that site I learned a 10" .45acp 200gr+P has as much muzzle energy as a 11" .223 55gr. Now I want a .45ACP SBR thompson

I don't know where you are seeing that, but it's not even close to being true. Average velocity of 55 grain XM193 5.56 is over 2800 fps out of an 11" barrel. That's 957 fpe. You'd have to push a 200 grain bullet a little past 1450 fps to get that kind of energy, and there ain't no .45 ACP cartridge even coming close to doing that out of a 10" barrel.

 

[bobzilla]

I don't know where you are seeing that, but it's not even close to being true. Average velocity of 55 grain XM193 5.56 is over 2800 fps out of an 11" barrel. That's 957 fpe. You'd have to push a 200 grain bullet a little past 1450 fps to get that kind of energy, and there ain't no .45 ACP cartridge even coming close to doing that out of a 10" barrel.

I mean I'm a college drop out and obviously pretty stupid but those look pretty damn close to me. Please feel free to correct me or the website.

EDIT: also, your math is a little off. That 10"bbl is pushing 2600fps not 2800.

 

[Route 45]

Using that site I learned a 10" .45acp 200gr+P has as much muzzle energy as a 11" .223 55gr. Now I want a .45ACP SBR thompson

I mean I'm a college drop out and obviously pretty stupid but those look pretty damn close to me. Please feel free to correct me or the website.

EDIT: also, your math is a little off. That 10"bbl is pushing 2600fps not 2800.

I didn't say you were stupid, but you might be colorblind. Look at your .45 ACP chart again. That's not the 200 grain +P load. You're comparing the hottest 165 grain load with the weakest .223 load.

Regardless, I didn't go by the line chart, which is actually imprecise and done quite poorly. I went with the actual figures listed in the velocity charts on that website. Check the exact figures and get back with me.

 

[bobzilla]

I didn't say you were stupid, but you might be colorblind. Look at your .45 ACP chart again. That's not the 200 grain +P load. You're comparing the hottest 165 grain load with the weakest .223 load.

Regardless, I didn't go by the line chart, which is actually imprecise and done quite poorly. I went with the actual figures listed in the velocity charts on that website. Check the exact figures and get back with me.

Are you always so arrogant and condescending? I'm not sure I've seen you post yet that isn't trying to belittle someone or correct people on minute details.

 

[Route 45]

Are you always so arrogant and condescending? I'm not sure I've seen you post yet that isn't trying to belittle someone or correct people on minute details.

It's funny how every time I'm right about something, I'm suddenly "arrogant and condescending."



The entire content of your post was comparing the 200 grain load to a .223 load. What I corrected wasn't a minute detail, it was literally the only thing in your post. It's like you posted that I-485 goes around Indianapolis, and I said, "No, it's I-465," then you whine about me correcting a minute detail. I mean, there's right and there's wrong. Words mean things, as Rush used to say.

Are you always such a butthurt snowflake?

 

[G19G26]

I have the Aero EPC with 16”bbl. Just got the new barrel from Aero this week. Still need to shoot it. Very handy set up.

Can you post a picture of the feed ' ramp' ? I have an original barrel that has feed problems. I had to add a Taccom feed ramp to lower to get it to feed reliably.
Thanks

 

[MrSmitty]

2 PCC’s from different centuries…

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

I have a KP9. I'm very happy with mine. Shooting steel quickly is a hoot

 

[Amishman44]

Can you post a picture of the feed ' ramp' ? I have an original barrel that has feed problems. I had to add a Taccom feed ramp to lower to get it to feed reliably.
Thanks

Here's a pic of the new 'enhanced' ECP 9mm feed ramp...the original barrel had just a round hole for the chamber throat, not the 'angled' edge around the chamber throat that is visible in this photo.

 

[MindfulMan]

Are you always so arrogant and condescending? I'm not sure I've seen you post yet that isn't trying to belittle someone or correct people on minute details.

You're correct. I've noticed the same thing. Be thankful for the "ignore" function.

 

[DadSmith]

My Ruger PC Carbine 9mm has never had one problem. It shoots everything. Russia steel case, and every HP, and weight from 115-147gr reliably.
I don't regret the $430 I paid for it.

 

[Amishman44]

My Ruger PC Carbine 9mm has never had one problem. It shoots everything. Russia steel case, and every HP, and weight from 115-147gr reliably.
I don't regret the $430 I paid for it.

$430 for a Ruger PC Carbine 9mm...nice price for Glock / Ruger magazine compatible rifle!
I have an older, original, PC9 Carbine that takes the P-Series magazines...what a hoot-to-shoot!
I have an older, Ruger P-95 pistol and wanted a 9mm magazine compatible rifle to go with it.
All 3 of my kids absolutely LOVE shooting it!
I prefer Glock...hence the EPC-9 build...etc.