Papa John's and Obamacare

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  • Solitaire

    Shooter
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    Oct 8, 2012
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    The liberal media never lets truth stand in the way of a good story.

    The first story is an interview with John Schnatter himself (Papa John). The second is from Forbes, a high quality, well respected business publication.

    Try again, this time without Fox news talking points.
     

    steveh_131

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    Did you read these?

    Let's look at your second link.

    Speaking to students at Edison State College in Napier County, Fla., last week, Schnatter said the cost of compliance might force Papa John's to cut back on employees hours.

    You're claiming this is a 'high quality, well respected' publication and touting its accuracy, meanwhile your first link claims that it is wrong. According to the first link, what he actually said is this:

    Reporter: "My understanding is that if you're a full time employee, which is 35 hours or over, you'd be covered. Or if you're part time then you wouldn't be. So wouldn't some business owners just cut people down like 34 hours a week so they wouldn't have to pay for health insurance?"

    Me: "It's common sense. It's what I call lose-lose."

    So this guy is claiming that he said cutting hours to avoid health insurance is 'common sense', but that he is not going to do it? Or is he backpedaling to avoid the negative press that he generated?
     

    Butros17

    Plinker
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    In regards to business, it does make sense. Walmart for decades has done something similar in having a severe discrepancy in their full/part time employee staffing to avoid having to pay out benefits. Why not work a dozen people 55 hours a week overseeing a gross working 31 if the gain in benefits not being paid outweights the OT? Loopholes in any system will for the most part, always be expoited in order to take advantage by business owners. The bottom line is the only line.
     

    Solitaire

    Shooter
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    So this guy is claiming that he said cutting hours to avoid health insurance is 'common sense', but that he is not going to do it? Or is he backpedaling to avoid the negative press that he generated?

    In the interview with the man himself, he said that it would be common sense to cut hours, but he doesn't control that, as most Papa John restaurants are franchises. He does debunk the wailing about jobs being lost, as he mentions the planned expansion coming up next year.

    Believe it or not, people can change their minds or update their positions based on new information or a new perspective. Papa Johns said that he might have to cut hours in a sound bite in one story, then gives a more complete explanation when interviewed in the other story. There is no inherent contradiction, just new information.

    Your attack on the sources is weak. I expect that Papa John is doing a little backpedaling as well, as cutting jobs over 5 cents a pizza would probably not play well on Main Street.
     

    Hajisc

    Marksman
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    Oct 11, 2012
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    Westville,In.
    It's a decision for the franchise holder and they will do whatever they have to stay open. Easy to criticize when you are not making the decisions.I always thought that if I owned a company I wouldnt do certain things but reality tends to make you compromise.Doesn't mean it's always right but you get pushed into corners sometimes. Obamacare is going to make me have my employees helping to pay for their insurance for the first time ,and no one likes that,even the ones that voted for him. Sorry for the rant but it's a hot topic around here.
     

    steveh_131

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    In the interview with the man himself, he said that it would be common sense to cut hours, but he doesn't control that, as most Papa John restaurants are franchises. He does debunk the wailing about jobs being lost, as he mentions the planned expansion coming up next year.

    You think the potential growth of Papa John's debunks the damage that is being done by the ACA? Is that the point you're trying to make here?

    Believe it or not, people can change their minds or update their positions based on new information or a new perspective. Papa Johns said that he might have to cut hours in a sound bite in one story, then gives a more complete explanation when interviewed in the other story. There is no inherent contradiction, just new information.

    No, this is not what happened. One of your two reputable sources is wrong. Either he said Papa John's would have to cut hours or he didn't. One says he did, one says he didn't.

    Who is lying?
     
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    1   0   0
    Jan 7, 2011
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    Jeffersonville
    Who is lying?

    Or is the source making contradictory statements...

    Hard to say...

    I will say this - it is usually counter productive for a business to take a partisan stance, unless said business is located in an area lacking political diversity.

    You can pretty much expect the media to get facts wrong, exaggerate, or turn a quote into a misleading snippet. This will happen on both sides of the political spectrum.

    Generally, making public political statements is a bad business decision.
     
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    Solitaire

    Shooter
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    You think the potential growth of Papa John's debunks the damage that is being done by the ACA? Is that the point you're trying to make here?

    No, this is not what happened. One of your two reputable sources is wrong. Either he said Papa John's would have to cut hours or he didn't. One says he did, one says he didn't.

    Who is lying?

    Nobody is lying. I think you are confused.

    In one story, dated 11/14/12, Papa Johns said that the business MIGHT have to cut hours.

    In the other story, the interview with Papa John, dated 11/20/12, he clarifies his position, stating that he doesn't control the business practices of the franchisee, but that a cut in hours would be common sense.

    In the last part of the second story, he says that Papa John's full time corporate employees and employees at company owned stores will continue to receive health benefits as always.

    There is always a potential for some inaccuracy in journalism, regardless of source. However, I don't see an inherent conflict between the sound bite on 11/14/12 and the actual interview and clarification on 11/20/12.

    Point is, it amounts to 5 cents a pizza. It seems that the fall of America brought on by the ACA is being reported a bit prematurely.
     

    steveh_131

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    Nobody is lying. I think you are confused.

    In one story, dated 11/14/12, Papa Johns said that the business MIGHT have to cut hours.

    In the other story, the interview with Papa John, dated 11/20/12, he clarifies his position, stating that he doesn't control the business practices of the franchisee, but that a cut in hours would be common sense.

    So the franchise owner isn't actually planning to cut hours. Ok? Who cares? How is this relevant to anything?

    Point is, it amounts to 5 cents a pizza. It seems that the fall of America brought on by the ACA is being reported a bit prematurely.

    Here's plenty more examples, and Obamacare isn't even in full effect yet.

    Mourning in America - Here's Those Layoffs We Voted For Last Night | FreedomWorks

    Obama Donor's Corporation Lays Off Employees Due to ObamaCare

    PICKET: Companies plan massive layoffs as Obamacare becomes reality - Washington Times

    Kaiser Permanente lays off 530 employees in Southern California - Press-Telegram

    Zane Tankel, Applebee's Franchisee, Says He Won't Hire Because Of Obamacare (VIDEO)

    Orlando Health layoffs: Orlando Health eliminates 400 jobs through layoffs and attrition - OrlandoSentinel.com

    Obamacare Layoffs: Georgia Businessman Claims He Fired Workers Because Obama Won
     
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    Jan 7, 2011
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    The sky is falling!

    Oh, wait....

    U.S. Employment Situation

    Blaming layoffs in a free market on one simple thing is generally a crude misrepresentation of reality.

    In the future, some people will be fired. In the future, some people will also be hired. That is pretty much how it has always worked....

    When you look at each individual company that is laying off employees, you often find other underlying reasons for the layoffs.

    Does the affordable care act have an impact? Sure it does! Is it the determining causal factor? Not really, no....
     
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    steveh_131

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    The sky is falling!

    Oh, wait....

    U.S. Employment Situation

    Blaming layoffs in a free market on one simple thing, is generally a crude misrepresentation of reality.

    This would make sense if I had simply linked stories of layoffs.

    These particular layoffs are happening specifically because of the ACA.

    I never said the sky is falling. I'm saying that this legislation will cost jobs and will hurt a lot of small businesses.

    Do you disagree with that statement?
     
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    This would make sense if I had simply linked stories of layoffs.

    These particular layoffs are happening specifically because of the ACA.

    I never said the sky is falling. I'm saying that this legislation will cost jobs and will hurt a lot of small businesses.

    Do you disagree with that statement?

    I disagree that every single one of those layoffs was caused simply by the ACA. It is just not that neat, tidy, and simple. People may attribute it directly to the ACA, but the picture is much broader.

    Do health care costs have a negative impact on a company's bottom line? Sure...

    If a company is performing poorly, and is barely scraping by, can it be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Sure...

    But simply blaming every layoff on the ACA alone ignores the fact that jobs are created and destroyed as a function of the free market.

    None of my companies are going to fire a single person because of the ACA.... I guess we just did not get the memo....
     

    steveh_131

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    When you look at each individual company that is laying off employees, you often find other underlying reasons for the layoffs.

    Does the affordable care act have an impact? Sure it does! Is it the determining causal factor? Not really, no....

    Ahh, I see you went back and actually read some of the links before your edit.
     

    steveh_131

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    I disagree that every single one of those layoffs was caused simply by the ACA. It is just not that neat, tidy, and simple. People may attribute it directly to the ACA, but the picture is much broader.

    Do health care costs have a negative impact on a company's bottom line? Sure...

    If a company is performing poorly, and is barely scraping by, can it be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Sure...

    But simply blaming every layoff on the ACA alone ignores the fact that jobs are created and destroyed as a function of the free market.

    None of my companies are going to fire a single person because of the ACA.... I guess we just did not get the memo....

    What, exactly, is your point?

    My point is that the ACA is damaging for small businesses and the economy.

    Companies are laying people off, and they did it immediately after Obama was re-elected and they realized that the ACA was here to stay. I've provided a lot of examples of this.

    The CEO of Papa John's also agreed with this. If you have more than the maximum number of employees, it may make sense for you to lay off a few to prevent the enormous added costs of funding health insurance for all the rest of them. Like he said, it's 'Common Sense'.

    So is your point that the ACA is not causing this damage? Or the damage it will cause is too small to be relevant? Because both links provided by the OP suggested that it would most certainly cause layoffs.
     
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    What, exactly, is your point?

    My point is that the ACA is damaging for small businesses and the economy.

    Companies are laying people off, and they did it immediately after Obama was re-elected and they realized that the ACA was here to stay. I've provided a lot of examples of this.

    The CEO of Papa John's also agreed with this. If you have more than the maximum number of employees, it may make sense for you to lay off a few to prevent the enormous added costs of funding health insurance for all the rest of them. Like he said, it's 'Common Sense'.

    So is your point that the ACA is not causing this damage? Or the damage it will cause is too small to be relevant? Because both links provided by the OP suggested that it would most certainly cause layoffs.

    My point is that the vast majority of companies that are screaming that the ACA makes it impossible to operate, were already in the red - or on the border. The reason these companies were in the red, or near it - had nothing to do with the ACA. To completely overlook the business failures that resulted by participation in a free market, and blame the layoffs squarely on the ACA - is misguided.

    Does it have an impact? Sure... but lets call it what it is - a failing business no longer able to profit because of more than one factor.

    Also, it looks like Mr John's company may not be making the large cutbacks he screamed about after all.

    All in all, while the ACA has had a negative impact on businesses - the level of butthurt is epic and over the top.

    The ACA will not keep me from hiring more employees - because if purchasing the labor of an employee nets me an overall bottom line gain, I will hire that person. Yes, it adds an addition cost - but that cost does not put me in the red if my business model is sound.

    In the end, the most likely scenario will be decreased wages for many jobs in order to account for the money spent providing employee's with health care benefits. In positions that pay minimum wage, the company's will take a profit hit - and that is why so many companies are upset. Most will still retain the same amount of employees, since the net profit gain will be positive - but they cannot pay them less than minimum wage, and now have to provide benefits - cutting into profits that in some cases are already slimmer than most would imagine.
     
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    steveh_131

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    My point is that the vast majority of companies that are screaming that the ACA makes it impossible to operate, were already in the red - or on the border. The reason these companies were in the red, or near it - had nothing to do with the ACA. To completely overlook the business failures that resulted by participation in a free market, and blame the layoffs squarely on the ACA - is misguided.

    Does it have an impact? Sure... but lets call it what it is - a failing business no longer able to profit because of more than one factor.

    Also, it looks like Mr John's company may not be making the large cutbacks he screamed about after all.

    All in all, while the ACA has had a negative impact on businesses - the level of butthurt is epic and over the top.

    The ACA will not keep me from hiring more employees - because if purchasing the labor of an employee nets me an overall bottom line gain, I will hire that person. Yes, it adds an addition cost - but that cost does not put me in the red if my business model is sound.

    In the end, the most likely scenario will be decreased wages for many jobs in order to account for the money spent providing employee's with health care benefits. In positions that pay minimum wage, the company's will take a profit hit - and that is why so many companies are upset. Most will still retain the same amount of employees, but they cannot pay them less than minimum wage, and now have to provide benefits - cutting into profits that in some cases are already slimmer than most would imagine.

    This is simple math.

    The ACA made it more expensive to keep employees on the payroll.

    Therefore, some businesses will make the decision to have fewer employees than the would have otherwise.

    It's that simple. Period.

    Is the sky falling? Is this the one thing that will destroy our economy? No. It's just one more government intrusion. We will keep piling them on that camel's back. Eventually it's going to break. But at least you will have made your true, if irrelevant, point that the ACA wasn't the only thing that caused it.
     
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