OH: Man in custody sneaks handgun into ER, big struggle, ends up shot

[cobber]

I don't disagree. Our collective sympathy and even admiration for criminals seems limitless these days.

Well, back in the old days we had the James gang and Billy the Kid, later characters like Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger. Not sure some segment of the population hasn't always had some admiration for lawbreakers.

 

[Tombs]

Well, back in the old days we had the James gang and Billy the Kid, later characters like Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger. Not sure some segment of the population hasn't always had some admiration for lawbreakers.

I wouldn't go as far as to include Billy the Kid in that group.

 

[Brad69]

IMO,
Nothing wrong with M&P appears that the slide made contact with something. I would assume any auto would have short slided ?

 

[BigRed]

Disclosure,

I watched the video and have not read the thread.

These folks showed much more patience and compassiom than I would towards such a person showing up at my place.

Also, I was reminded of why it is important to work on "clearing a jam".

 

[DadSmith]

What firearm did the officer have that had the malfunction?

I watched it 2x and I still can't see any shots of course I can't hear so that's a negative in that regard. When they fell to the floor did the bad guy pull a gun and try to shoot the officer?

 

[Tombs]

What firearm did the officer have that had the malfunction?

I watched it 2x and I still can't see any shots of course I can't hear so that's a negative in that regard. When they fell to the floor did the bad guy pull a gun and try to shoot the officer?

Full size S&W M&P.

 

[rkwhyte2]

Im no fan of it either. I've never had reliability problems with it. i just dont like the trigger. Because of the current firearm market, i havent been able to replace it.

Excuse the thread jack but you should look at the Apex forward set trigger. I had an M&P compact (gen1) and hated the trigger. Installed the Apex kit and it was like a brand new gun. I'd still have it but went away from striker fired pistols.

 

[churchmouse]

Not my line of work, but I am sort of baffled that there five or six cops there, and one of them was all by himself rasslin' that guy on the floor while the rest of the stood around pointing guns and tasers? I would think the guy on the floor would have appreciated a couple of the others jumping on board. Or were they all afraid of getting Chauvinized?

Bingo.

 

[kickbacked]

Excuse the thread jack but you should look at the Apex forward set trigger. I had an M&P compact (gen1) and hated the trigger. Installed the Apex kit and it was like a brand new gun. I'd still have it but went away from striker fired pistols.

I actually ordered an apex trigger kit. But somewhere on youtube while watching a guy install it he brought up modifying a trigger and how it could potentially be used against you in court. I did a little searching and i dont think its every been used, but i found plenty of people talking about how it could be. So i canceled the order. With the trigger kit and needing the tools to push the rear sight id be right around $200 so may as well spend the extra 400 and get a new toy.

 

[Tombs]

I actually ordered an apex trigger kit. But somewhere on youtube while watching a guy install it he brought up modifying a trigger and how it could potentially be used against you in court. I did a little searching and i dont think its every been used, but i found plenty of people talking about how it could be. So i canceled the order. With the trigger kit and needing the tools to push the rear sight id be right around $200 so may as well spend the extra 400 and get a new toy.

I wouldn't really worry about that unless it compromises safeties built into the firearm, and you have some sort of accident. If it's a good shoot, it's a good shoot.

 

[nipprdog]

If it's a good shoot, it's a good shoot.

That will save you in a criminal court, but not in a civil trial.

 

[DadSmith]

That will save you in a criminal court, but not in a civil trial.

Didn't Indiana make a law protecting people from that or is that just when aiding a law enforcement officer?

 

[wtburnette]

I had an M&P that I installed that Apex trigger kit in and while the trigger break was light and crisp, the reset wasn't as tactile as I prefer and it was hard to find. I sold that and prefer my CZ P10C which has a very tactile reset that is short and easy to find.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I wouldn't really worry about that unless it compromises safeties built into the firearm, and you have some sort of accident. If it's a good shoot, it's a good shoot.

What if it's a good shoot that's not readily recognizable as such? What if it's actually questionable? Everyone imagines their shoot as good and instantly recognized as good. Sometimes that's the case. Sometimes it isn't. What narratives can be built around your choice of weapons modifications? How much money in legal fees did a certain dust cover cost before getting the judge to agree to keep it out of the trial? Does a dust cover affect the legality of a shoot?

Be prepared to justify any modifications. Some are easier to justify than others.

 

[Tactically Fat]

What if it's a good shoot that's not readily recognizable as such? What if it's actually questionable? Everyone imagines their shoot as good and instantly recognized as good. Sometimes that's the case. Sometimes it isn't. What narratives can be built around your choice of weapons modifications? How much money in legal fees did a certain dust cover cost before getting the judge to agree to keep it out of the trial? Does a dust cover affect the legality of a shoot?

Be prepared to justify any modifications. Some are easier to justify than others.

And realize that Grand Juries, who often decide whether or not things are to be investigated further and potentially prosecuted, are generally at the whim of the Prosecutor. And we all know that not all prosecutors are "on our side". And even if they *are* "on our side", they still must investigate.

Further - let's say that prosecution does go forward all the way to a jury trial. "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" is wholly ignorant and extremely short-sighted. A jury of your peers doesn't mean that there will be 12 dudes who share your hobbies and political leanings. Actually, it'll probably be the opposite." So, therefore, you'll end up with a jury of 12 people who are probably going to be wholly ignorant of firearms. And probably wholly ignorant of self defense, too.

 

[rosejm]

Nothing wrong with M&P appears that the slide made contact with something

The officer's support thumb caused the short stroke.

I've said it before, I'll repeat: Practice your malfunction drills

Including the ones that don't get solved by simply racking the slide!
TRAIN for your failures, like an astronaut. When you're ready to manage the failures that *can't* occur, you'll automatically clear the ones that do.

"Shaking" your fancy metal club is not recommended.
Put something better into your squishy grey toolbox.

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

And realize that Grand Juries, who often decide whether or not things are to be investigated further and potentially prosecuted, are generally at the whim of the Prosecutor. And we all know that not all prosecutors are "on our side". And even if they *are* "on our side", they still must investigate.

Further - let's say that prosecution does go forward all the way to a jury trial. "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" is wholly ignorant and extremely short-sighted. A jury of your peers doesn't mean that there will be 12 dudes who share your hobbies and political leanings. Actually, it'll probably be the opposite." So, therefore, you'll end up with a jury of 12 people who are probably going to be wholly ignorant of firearms. And probably wholly ignorant of self defense, too.

Point taken, but these are still better alternatives than the opposite side of the grass.

"The dead know only one thing; it is better to be alive." - Pvt J.T "Joker" Davis

 

[JettaKnight]

And realize that Grand Juries, who often decide whether or not things are to be investigated further and potentially prosecuted, are generally at the whim of the Prosecutor. And we all know that not all prosecutors are "on our side". And even if they *are* "on our side", they still must investigate.

Further - let's say that prosecution does go forward all the way to a jury trial. "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" is wholly ignorant and extremely short-sighted. A jury of your peers doesn't mean that there will be 12 dudes who share your hobbies and political leanings. Actually, it'll probably be the opposite." So, therefore, you'll end up with a jury of 12 people who are probably going to be wholly ignorant of firearms. And probably wholly ignorant of self defense, too.

But "better to be doing 10-15 in a cell with 4 than carried by 6" doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

 

[Tactically Fat]

But "better to be doing 10-15 in a cell with 4 than carried by 6" doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

Yep.

During which you'll probably lose your house... lose your spouse... lose your kids... lose everything that you once held near and dear.

 

[Airtevron1]

Limp-wrist shot totally screwed that officer's gun and he would have been dead if the suspect had stood up and turned around. Lucky break getting that first shot on him.

Doubt it, the guy had arms like Popeye