OC with Out-of-State permit?

[Titanium_Frost]

If someone wants to know for sure, take an out of state friend from a non-OC state who's license says something along the lines of "Concealed Firearm Permit" and have them parade around Hammond openly carrying it.

You will surely get to see how it plays out. I'm pretty sure most of the cops up there will jump at an opportunity to arrest someone for OCing.

Then we can put all this debate to rest. I'm guessing the people who say its perfectly legal aren't volunteering their friends/relatives for this.

I would do it if I was from another state. There is NO difference in Indiana between OC and CC, NONE. If it is not in our laws then the state (the entity who charges you with a crime) cannot make up a new classification.

The ISP FAQ said you shouldn't OC at all a few years ago so it doesn't hold much merit beyond the opinion of whoever wrote it.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Find an example of someone arrested, charged and convicted of OCing with an out of state CPL. Money says you can't.

 

[longbarrel]

I would also like to play! As I've always understood it, YOU FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE STATE YOU'RE IN.

If your state has no posted speed limits, you still have to follow ours. Why is this so complicated? Oh, by the way, I heard the lifetime concealed weapon permit is going away. Anyone heard that?


It just takes one person to start a rumor, then people start quoting it as fact. Ugh. I'm tired.

This is off topic and sorry to op, but your signature sucks.

 

[92ThoStro]

I would do it if I was from another state. There is NO difference in Indiana between OC and CC, NONE. If it is not in our laws then the state (the entity who charges you with a crime) cannot make up a new classification.

The ISP FAQ said you shouldn't OC at all a few years ago so it doesn't hold much merit beyond the opinion of whoever wrote it.

Except for carrying without a license. Even Carry USA which everyone uses for the state maps, says not to OC in IN with a CC license. Unless you get Guy Relford on here to tell us otherwise, and to offer free services to any of our out of state friends who get arrested, I don't believe you and will side with the ISP FAQ until then.

Or one of the local LEOS can say if they would arrest the person or not. Even if you can fight it and get off in court, who wants to be arrested and put in jail because they wanted to OC instead of CC from out of state? The cop decides how your day goes first.

Off topic but did anyone see this yet for Ohio concerning Arizona non resident permit? From handgunlaw.us

NOTICE: Per conversation 2/8/13 with OH AG’s Office. Ohio will only honor an Arizona Permit/License from Residents of Arizona. The signed agreement states this and Arizona wrote the Agreement Ohio just signed it. They are working to rectify this as AZ is the only Non-Resident Permit that Ohio will not honor. From my discussions with the AG’s Office they are working on a new agreement as Arizona has no issue with Ohio either honoring or not honoring their Non-Resident Permit. When more information becomes available I will put that info here.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf

 

[JimmyR]

So what do you have to say about this folks?

Straight from the Indiana State Police FAQ



http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf

I think apologies to some are in order

And this is why we have FAQs- or in this case, the ISP has FAQs.

Rep inbound for finding the simple answer to a simple question people made complicated, and for documenting the source.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Except for carrying without a license. Even Carry USA which everyone uses for the state maps, says not to OC in IN with a CC license. Unless you get Guy Relford on here to tell us otherwise, and to offer free services to any of our out of state friends who get arrested, I don't believe you and will side with the ISP FAQ until then.

Or one of the local LEOS can say if they would arrest the person or not. Even if you can fight it and get off in court, who wants to be arrested and put in jail because they wanted to OC instead of CC from out of state? The cop decides how your day goes first.

I am not using my lawyer's talents to settle a stupid internet argument but I will say that I have discussed this with him in detail. Another caveat would be that in the realm of law, nothing is set in stone or guaranteed.

I believe there has already been at least one INGO LEO who said it did not matter what the license is called as long as it was valid. Not that it holds any weight beyond thier own opinion anyway. The ISP FAQ is just opinion as well until it is proven in court.

ETA: here it is for your veiwing pleasure-

If you have a LTCH, CCW, Permit...you are good in Indiana...CC or OC.

 

[fastwally]

Ok, let me have the last say here, maybe.................

 

[ATM]

It doesn't have to prohibit it. The title of the license SAYS what it is licensing you to do. Very specifically.

A carry license simply provides a legal exception to something which would be prohibited without it. In Indiana, that prohibition is carrying a handgun. In many other states, that prohibition is carrying concealed weapons.

Most states don't require a license to carry openly so their licenses are likely worded as they are to provide exception only to that which is prohibited. Having such a license certainly doesn't prohibit them from still carrying openly, so the word concealed in the title cannot be considered a restrictive term upon the licensee.

There are other states which actually prohibit OC but issue concealed licenses as above to except licensees from another law prohibiting concealed carry without it. It is not the word on the license which restricts carrying openly in those states, it is simply a different law for which they do not provide any exception. Such a law against open carry does not follow that state's licensees beyond its borders as would an actual license restriction (such as the DL vision issue you note below).

As for DL restrictions, several people in my family are impaired, we know the laws on this. The cop who pulled you over doesn't care what kind of vision you have, all he cares is that your DL says no driving after dark.

As I've already stated, if your carry license stated a restriction or prohibited something, your attempted comparison would have merit.

I dont know why I bother responding to these. Not like it matters, I doubt many cops know the difference. But every attorney I have spoken to (5 in my immediate family) all agree that the title of a license is the most obvious and blatant declaration of the primary term of any license.

Then licensing is clearly not these lawyers' field of specialty or experience.
I'm sure they have more accurate advice in many other areas of law.

So what do you have to say about this folks?

Straight from the Indiana State Police FAQ

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf

I think apologies to some are in order

I rarely apologize for being wrong, but actually being wrong would be a definite requirement.

That ISP FAQ has been a fairly laughable source of "someone's opinion" for many years. Please don't put much faith in it, it borders on deliberate misinformation in spots. Go directly to the source, Indiana Code and case law*.

*Of course, case law won't help much on this particular topic because I don't believe anyone has ever been prosecuted for carrying without a license in Indiana while they held a license to carry from any other state or foreign country.

If someone wants to know for sure, take an out of state friend from a non-OC state who's license says something along the lines of "Concealed Firearm Permit" and have them parade around Hammond openly carrying it.

You will surely get to see how it plays out. I'm pretty sure most of the cops up there will jump at an opportunity to arrest someone for OCing.

Then we can put all this debate to rest. I'm guessing the people who say its perfectly legal aren't volunteering their friends/relatives for this.

While I do not qualify to test this myself, I will offer to pay for the designated parader's legal defense (it's just a misdemeanor).

...if you can find a prosecutor willing to pull such a stunt by bringing it in front of a judge.

 

[mtomaro]

"In other words, if you home state requires the weapon be concealed, then the
weapon must be concealed in Indiana."

Missouri does not require a permit to OC and thus, they only issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon. "My home state" does not require it to be concealed but rather says it has to be open and can only be concealed if I have a permit. In other words, my permit allows me to conceal but does not require it. IMO, this means I should be able to OC in Indiana no problem.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

"In other words, if you home state requires the weapon be concealed, then the
weapon must be concealed in Indiana."

Missouri does not require a permit to OC and thus, they only issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon. "My home state" does not require it to be concealed but rather says it has to be open and can only be concealed if I have a permit. In other words, my permit allows me to conceal but does not require it. IMO, this means I should be able to OC in Indiana no problem.

YES!!! Someone finally gets it!

However IMO your first sentance is incorrect in its wording. Your home state laws have NOTHING to do with it, and all about restrictions placed on your license. No state permit restricts its owner from OCing, the state laws do.

 

[sf045]

Hello, I live in Illinois with current CCL, how should I approach to open carry in other states such WI or IN or MI ? Any one please explain this little bit more here in "English" so everyone understand this... The issue is, if I concealed carry in Illinois and I'm driving to Wisconsin, what should I do? Still be under Illinois law which says "concealed carry" or I can open carry with my Illinois Concealed Carry License ? Any answer will be greatly appreciated and welcomed.

thank you!

 

[ATM]

Hello, I live in Illinois with current CCL, how should I approach to open carry in other states such WI or IN or MI ? Any one please explain this little bit more here in "English" so everyone understand this... The issue is, if I concealed carry in Illinois and I'm driving to Wisconsin, what should I do? Still be under Illinois law which says "concealed carry" or I can open carry with my Illinois Concealed Carry License ? Any answer will be greatly appreciated and welcomed.

thank you!

It depends on the state you are in at the time and how their restrictions and exceptions are written.

A more recent discussion on this topic can be found here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...se/340929-oc-nra-convention-illinois-ccw.html

Welcome to INGO.

 

[ModernGunner]

As a former LEO, this is my personal opinion: (for whatever reason) you're OC'ing and I stop you and ask for your license. You're from ANY State, and you show me your valid license (CCW, CPL, whatever). "Thank you sir / ma'am, have a nice day". But that's ME.

However, IMO the easiest way to sort it out is, as we've been often told, just follow the more 'restrictive' verbiage. If YOUR State says you're 'restricted' only to CC, then just CC. It's that simple.

What some folks are wanting to do is 'push the envelope' solely for the purpose of pushing the envelope. Sorry, but that's just dumb, IMO. Why bother with the headache, whichever way it plays out? To "prove a point"? WHAT point?

Indiana already allows out-of-State visitors to carry if that's their preference. That's fine with me, and I (if still a LEO) don't really care if you're carrying OC or CC. But, there MAY be (probably are) SOME LEO's that DO, and would make an issue out of it.

Are ya gonna spend your fun vacation time MAYBE getting arrested, having your (probably expensive) firearm confiscated, your car impounded, maybe other firearms in the trunk confiscated, hiring a lawyer (free or not), have to MAYBE go to court, 'fight' to get the confiscated firearms returned (which COULD take gawd knows how long) and blah, blah, blah? That's just stupid. I dunno, but I think MOST people with ANY sense (common or not) would think that whole debacle would, at the minimum, put a bit of a 'damper' on what SHOULD have been a fun vacation, LOL.

WHY get into all that in the first place? IF you're carrying by the 'most restrictive rule', there is NO potential issue.

Jeez, even the dumbest of 'homeboys' understands that when they espouse, "Don't start no s**t won't be no s**t".

 

[JettaKnight]

Hello, I live in Illinois with current CCL, how should I approach to open carry in other states such WI or IN or MI ? Any one please explain this little bit more here in "English" so everyone understand this... The issue is, if I concealed carry in Illinois and I'm driving to Wisconsin, what should I do? Still be under Illinois law which says "concealed carry" or I can open carry with my Illinois Concealed Carry License ? Any answer will be greatly appreciated and welcomed.

thank you!

I'll ignore the "approaching storm" and stick to your question. MI and WI are states that accept OC without a license. Also, I don't know if they accept your CCL for CC. You should be OK in both, but I wouldn't push it in Madison.

As for IN, yes there's some controversy here on INGO with the armchair lawyers. But that's about it since no one can cite a case where this was tested.

Check out Handgunlaw.us.

 

[Hogwylde]

As a former LEO, this is my personal opinion: (for whatever reason) you're OC'ing and I stop you and ask for your license. You're from ANY State, and you show me your valid license (CCW, CPL, whatever). "Thank you sir / ma'am, have a nice day". But that's ME.

If someone hasn't given you probable cause that they have committed a crime, what's your basis for asking for their permit in the first place?? It's illegal to drive a car without a license too, but you can't just stop someone who's driving down the road to see IF they have a license and IF it's valid.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If someone hasn't given you probable cause that they have committed a crime,

Carrying a handgun is a crime in Indiana.

It would go like the Georgia case.

 

[ModernGunner]

If someone hasn't given you probable cause that they have committed a crime, what's your basis for asking for their permit in the first place?? It's illegal to drive a car without a license too, but you can't just stop someone who's driving down the road to see IF they have a license and IF it's valid.

And yet, ironically, I had already stated "(for whatever reason)", meaning if there was some justifiable reason for making that stop and inquiry.

And just FYI, there's other reasons besides "probably cause that they have committed a crime".