OC with Out-of-State permit?

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  • Titanium_Frost

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    That is how I read it.

    If your license is for OC, you must OC. If it is for CC, you must CC. If it is ambiguous, Bob's your Uncle.

    As for laws, they don't transfer. Not being allowed to carry in a bank in your state doesn't transfer here just like being able to carry at your State Fair doesn't override our law and transfer here either.


    The question I have is the technicalities of being in a state that only allows licensed OC, and the reciprocity of a state that only allows licensed CC. Would your OC license allow CC in the travel state (since it is the only legal form of carry in said state)? I'm sure there would be no reciprocity because of this, but without actually looking up examples, I would be curious to see how/if this works. I'm guessing it would come down to the wording of the travel state's reciprocity agreement.

    There is not one single state that issues an OC license, your logic doesn't work here. Indiana recognizes a handgun carry permit as a carry permit, period. The state cannot see OC or CC as they do not exist in our laws.

    You can OC on a CCW permit from any state in Indiana because it is legal here with a valid license.
     

    Car Ramrod

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    There is not one single state that issues an OC license, your logic doesn't work here. Indiana recognizes a handgun carry permit as a carry permit, period. The state cannot see OC or CC as they do not exist in our laws.

    You can OC on a CCW permit from any state in Indiana because it is legal here with a valid license.
    The last half of my post was a separate statement and had nothing to do with Indiana. I do not know if there are states that offer only OC licenses, and also stated I did not search for examples of such.

    As for the logic of my post, and as others have said in this thread, you are specifically (and in some cases ambiguously, but that makes this moot) licensed by your state to either carry OC or CC. Our law says an out of state license "will be recognized according to the terms thereof". The "terms thereof" would be either OC or CC. Your license is issued by your state, and you must follow the method of carry terms set by your license, and not the terms of the travel state.
     

    Smokepole

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    That would be true, if it didn't say specifically in the IC that Indiana recognizes other states Licence's and/or Permits. If your home state doesn't require either and doesn't offer one, you're pretty much SOL outside of that state. That is why states such as AZ, even though you don't HAVE to have a permit to carry (CC or OC), still offers a permit for reciprocity purposes.

    That would be a good case for having a Utah Carry permit. Especially if living in Constitutional Carry state. Then any issues are covered as long as the state you are traveling in recognizes Utah permit.
     

    ATM

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    ...Our law says an out of state license "will be recognized according to the terms thereof". The "terms thereof" would be either OC or CC.

    This is the point I was attempting to clarify earlier. OC and CC are terms of some state laws, but no licenses that I'm aware of. The word concealed on a license is not a "term thereof" requiring concealed carry or prohibiting open carry. In most states, it only says concealed because that is the only method of carry which would require a licensed exception to practice.


    Your license is issued by your state, and you must follow the method of carry terms set by your license, and not the terms of the travel state.

    I've yet to see a method of carry prohibited by any term of a state's carry license. Such regulations are generally found in statutes which end at that state's border. Statutes are not license terms.
     

    Bill B

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    My understanding is that the "terms therof" refer to specific limitation on the license. For example; I seem to remember that a western state (Nevada?) licenses people for either revolver or semi-auto, and it's on their license. Therefore a person with a revolver license would not be able to carry a semi-auto in Indiana if their license said "revolver only" on it.
    Clear as mud.
     

    Titanium_Frost

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    "According to the terms thereof" is some gobbledygook that an ignorant politician had added in to the statute to give his anti-freedom hippy supporters some feelgood rainbow juice to shoot up their ass. Don't hang your opinions on it.

    As for Car Ramrod, dude. I have no idea what you are trying to say. I have a pet peeve of trying to argue with someone on a technicality and they admit in the middle of their argument they have done no real research into the matter. Sir, I beg you to not try to argue from ignorance but to do some research and provide sources of these ghost states that issue OC licenses.

    A state issues a license to carry a handgun. 49 states do this in some form or another. Many states it is legal to OC without a license and must have a license to conceal, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio and Colorado are examples of this. Other states issue a license to carry however you choose like such as Indiana.

    Texas, Florida, Arkansas, South Carolina and New York are the only states to issue a license that do not have a legal means for their citizens to OC within their borders.

    If you are a resident of one of those five states or a resident of another state carrying on a non-resident permit from one of those states you can legally open carry in Indiana because OUR laws do not recognize a difference between open and concealed carry. There is literally NO crime you could be charged with while openly carrying a handgun in this state while in possession of a valid CCW, CPL, CDW etc from another state.
     

    rsklar

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    A person from out of state who has a Permit to carry recognized by Indiana must abide by all of the laws that Indiana Permit holders are required to follow.
     

    CPT Nervous

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    I would also like to play! As I've always understood it, YOU FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE STATE YOU'RE IN.

    If your state has no posted speed limits, you still have to follow ours. Why is this so complicated? Oh, by the way, I heard the lifetime concealed weapon permit is going away. Anyone heard that?


    It just takes one person to start a rumor, then people start quoting it as fact. Ugh. I'm tired.
     

    Beau

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    I'm pretty sure that if you are not an Indiana resident and you hold a perlicensmit from your home state you must follow the firearms laws of New York in order to be in compliance of your home state and Indiana law.
     

    revance

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    I would also like to play! As I've always understood it, YOU FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE STATE YOU'RE IN.

    If your state has no posted speed limits, you still have to follow ours. Why is this so complicated? Oh, by the way, I heard the lifetime concealed weapon permit is going away. Anyone heard that?


    It just takes one person to start a rumor, then people start quoting it as fact. Ugh. I'm tired.

    Speed limits are a local law, not terms of your DL.

    If KY puts restrictions on DLs if you have 10-20 vision but Indiana doesn't unless you are 8-20, the terms of your KY license still place restrictions on you while driving in Indiana.

    It doesn't matter what the origin state laws are, all that matters is what is printed on your license. Two totally separate things. If you OC here with a "License to carry a concealed handgun" you are NOT following the terms of your license. It doesn't matter if your state has Constitutional OC. That is a state law not applicable in IN. All that matters here are the terms of your license, which are printed clearly on the card.
     

    ATM

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    ...If you OC here with a "License to carry a concealed handgun" you are NOT following the terms of your license. It doesn't matter if your state has Constitutional OC. That is a state law not applicable in IN. All that matters here are the terms of your license, which are printed clearly on the card.

    That would only be true if your "License to carry a concealed handgun" specifically prohibited open carry as a term of the license.

    I've not seen an example yet which makes this a term of any carry license.

    Generally, licenses provide exceptions to laws. In a different state, they may provide exceptions to entirely different laws.
     

    Titanium_Frost

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    Speed limits are a local law, not terms of your DL.

    If KY puts restrictions on DLs if you have 10-20 vision but Indiana doesn't unless you are 8-20, the terms of your KY license still place restrictions on you while driving in Indiana.

    It doesn't matter what the origin state laws are, all that matters is what is printed on your license. Two totally separate things. If you OC here with a "License to carry a concealed handgun" you are NOT following the terms of your license. It doesn't matter if your state has Constitutional OC. That is a state law not applicable in IN. All that matters here are the terms of your license, which are printed clearly on the card.

    You speak with a lot of authority, any sources for this? I bet you don't ;)
     

    revance

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    That would only be true if your "License to carry a concealed handgun" specifically prohibited open carry as a term of the license.

    I've not seen an example yet which makes this a term of any carry license.

    Generally, licenses provide exceptions to laws. In a different state, they may provide exceptions to entirely different laws.

    It doesn't have to prohibit it. The title of the license SAYS what it is licensing you to do. Very specifically.

    As for DL restrictions, several people in my family are impaired, we know the laws on this. The cop who pulled you over doesn't care what kind of vision you have, all he cares is that your DL says no driving after dark.

    I dont know why I bother responding to these. Not like it matters, I doubt many cops know the difference. But every attorney I have spoken to (5 in my immediate family) all agree that the title of a license is the most obvious and blatant declaration of the primary term of any license.
     

    Titanium_Frost

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    It doesn't have to prohibit it. The title of the license SAYS what it is licensing you to do. Very specifically.

    As for DL restrictions, several people in my family are impaired, we know the laws on this. The cop who pulled you over doesn't care what kind of vision you have, all he cares is that your DL says no driving after dark.

    I dont know why I bother responding to these. Not like it matters, I doubt many cops know the difference. But every attorney I have spoken to (5 in my immediate family) all agree that the title of a license is the most obvious and blatant declaration of the primary term of any license.

    No state has a different license for open and concealed carry so your "term" does not make sense.

    What crime would the state charge you with anyway?
     

    revance

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    No state has a different license for open and concealed carry so your "term" does not make sense.

    What crime would the state charge you with anyway?

    Of course they do. Ours is a LTCH, it doesn't specify. My Utah one licenses me to carry a concealed firearm.

    They would charge you with carrying without a license. You were not licensed to do what you were doing.
     

    92ThoStro

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    :popcorn:

    So what do you have to say about this folks?

    Straight from the Indiana State Police FAQ

    I am a permit holder from another state and will be in Indiana in the future. Where and
    how can I carry my handgun in your state?
    As stated in the previous question, Indiana honors licenses issued by other states according to the
    terms thereof. In other words, if you home state requires the weapon be concealed, then the
    weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in your vehicle in
    your home state, then do not do so in Indiana

    http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf

    I think apologies to some are in order :D
     
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    revance

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    If someone wants to know for sure, take an out of state friend from a non-OC state who's license says something along the lines of "Concealed Firearm Permit" and have them parade around Hammond openly carrying it.

    You will surely get to see how it plays out. I'm pretty sure most of the cops up there will jump at an opportunity to arrest someone for OCing.

    Then we can put all this debate to rest. I'm guessing the people who say its perfectly legal aren't volunteering their friends/relatives for this.
     
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