Obama's fingerprints are all over it

Kutnupe14

Grandmaster
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jan 13, 2011
38,526
149
No problem, accepted (except for your comment on my intelligence :p). My wife consistently tells me I am lacking in that area so you are now an official member of the club!
I didn't comment on your intelligence, nor anybody else's; but I will apologize for there being a confusion in that.
When I say I can't have an intelligent conversation with some one, that doesn't mean the person is dumb, but rather that ideas can't be exchanged to the satisfaction of either party. For instance, I know nothing about black powder firearms, If I met someone who knows a lot about them, we can't have an in-depth intelligent discussion, not because I'm dumb, but because I'm not versed enough in the subject.
 

Chewie

Old, Tired, Grumpy, Skeptical
Site Supporter
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Dec 28, 2012
935
63
Martinsville
I didn't comment on your intelligence, nor anybody else's; but I will apologize for there being a confusion in that.
When I say I can't have an intelligent conversation with some one, that doesn't mean the person is dumb, but rather that ideas can't be exchanged to the satisfaction of either party. For instance, I know nothing about black powder firearms, If I met someone who knows a lot about them, we can't have an in-depth intelligent discussion, not because I'm dumb, but because I'm not versed enough in the subject.
Ah Hah! Misunderstanding by text. Common problem, I suffer from it quite frequently (as you can tell).
 

BigRed

Master
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dec 29, 2017
3,283
149
1,000 yards out
The Federal Government has frankly been a never-ending source of good and progress for black Americans. Many of them feel much of the progress accumulated by black Americans has been made possible, in no small part, by the aggressive interventions of an activist Federal Government. They are simply never going to have the degree of skepticism of Federal Government power that white conservatives have.
Though many may "feel" that way, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and others have demonstrated time and again that the intervention has been anything but good.

There is much truth in the old saying, "ignorance is bliss".
 

1nderbeard

Sharpshooter
Local Business Supporter
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Apr 3, 2017
807
43
Hendricks County
I won't insult anyone personally for how they voted. I get it - they're all dirtbags. R or D. And Trump may not be the conventional dirtbag, but morally he's a hard thing to root for.

But -

Don't act surprised when Biden does what he promised to do on his campaign site. He's already said he wants to come after guns. It's been 6 weeks and everything is shaping up to be that way. Don't tell me that he hasn't done it yet, and so we're all wrong speculating. He's literally said, in print and in speeches, what he's going to do.
 

Twangbanger

Master
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Oct 9, 2010
4,360
113
Though many may "feel" that way, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and others have demonstrated time and again that the intervention has been anything but good.

There is much truth in the old saying, "ignorance is bliss".
Yeah, but they're talking about the breakdown of the family and people at the "bottom." I think on INGO, we're talking about middle-class blacks who own guns, have jobs, are married, etc.

Those Icons of the Right are also talking about a complex sociological equation connecting "X" variables, or inputs, and "Y" values, or outputs. It takes a fairly complex analysis to make the connection between the two, and that analysis is subject to interpretation. Those negative outcomes are not unanimously attributed to the action of the Federal Government; there is an equal-but-opposite army of sociologists on the Left who say those negative effects were due to the nebulous concept of "White Supremacy," and the Federal Government was not the cause of that, but rather just an instrument wielded by the Supremacists.

I'm just talking about the percentage of black voters who feel the Federal Government has benefited them in a direct, transactional way. And that number is large. They see the Federal Government as a "gun" which can be used for well or ill, and they feel that over time, the benefits outweigh the cons. The thought pattern seems to be that the Government harmed blacks for a long time while its power was wielded by whites...then, when a "better type of whites" got control and started to shift the balance back the other way, the Supremacists morphed into a "small-government" faction which is trying to roll back the clock on those gains. This is evidenced by the oft-heard statement about how "You never heard about the TEA Party, until a black man got elected President." It's the idea that white people are juuuust fine with large government...until a black man is running it.

A true black conservative capitalist small-governmenter is hard to find. I work with one, who still has a Trump sign in his yard 3.5 months after he lost the election. But very, very rare, in my experience. Most blacks I've met are like Kut. The like the Federal Government, and believe that a muscular Federal Government and Gun Rights can exist side by side.

And I'm just saying, our habit of voting in whoever has an "R" next to their name tends to end up proving them right. They get Big Government while keeping their 2A. Nothing has changed that equation yet, either from the left or right.
 
Last edited:

BigRed

Master
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dec 29, 2017
3,283
149
1,000 yards out
Some good observations, though I would argue big government is harmful to all in the long run.

Bastiat made observations somewhat consistent with yours in "The Law". The law is a hammer of plunder and the struggle is over who swings it. All the while, the people are in reality plundering one another.
 
Last edited:

Kutnupe14

Grandmaster
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jan 13, 2011
38,526
149
Yeah, but they're talking about the breakdown of the family and people at the "bottom." I think on INGO, we're talking about middle-class blacks who own guns, have jobs, are married, etc.

Those Icons of the Right are also talking about a complex sociological equation connecting "X" variables, or inputs, and "Y" values, or outputs. It takes a fairly complex analysis to make the connection between the two, and that analysis is subject to interpretation. Those negative outcomes are not unanimously attributed to the action of the Federal Government; there is an equal-but-opposite army of sociologists on the Left who say those negative effects were due to the nebulous concept of "White Supremacy," and the Federal Government was not the cause of that, but rather just an instrument wielded by the Supremacists.

I'm just talking about the percentage of black voters who feel the Federal Government has benefited them in a direct, transactional way. And that number is large. They see the Federal Government as a "gun" which can be used for well or ill, and they feel that over time, the benefits outweigh the cons. The thought pattern seems to be that the Government harmed blacks for a long time while its power was wielded by whites...then, when a "better type of whites" got control and started to shift the balance back the other way, the Supremacists morphed into a "small-government" faction which is trying to roll back the clock on those gains. This is evidenced by the oft-heard statement about how "You never heard about the TEA Party, until a black man got elected President." It's the idea that white people are juuuust fine with large government...until a black man is running it.

A true black conservative capitalist small-governmenter is hard to find. I work with one, who still has a Trump sign in his yard 3.5 months after he lost the election. But very, very rare, in my experience. Most blacks I've met are like Kut. The like the Federal Government, and believe that a muscular Federal Government and Gun Rights can exist side by side.

And I'm just saying, our habit of voting in whoever has an "R" next to their name tends to end up proving them right. They get Big Government while keeping their 2A. Nothing has changed that equation yet, either from the left or right.
Excuse me? I was going to let you have at it, until you decided to drag me into this. I don't know where you got this nonsense, but it's crackpot. Black people don't trust the federal government anymore than White people.... but, like White People, they are more inclined to trust GOV, when their preferred party is in power.
 

OneBadV8

Stay Picky my Friends
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Rating - 100%
49   0   0
Aug 7, 2008
40,647
71
Ft Wayne
more inclined to trust GOV, when their preferred party is in power.
This is the problem with the whole country. People, News Media, etc. Once your party is in power, they get a pass. And they shouldn't, because if you support them, you should hold them MORE accountable.
 

Twangbanger

Master
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Oct 9, 2010
4,360
113
Excuse me? I was going to let you have at it, until you decided to drag me into this. I don't know where you got this nonsense, but it's crackpot. Black people don't trust the federal government anymore than White people.... but, like White People, they are more inclined to trust GOV, when their preferred party is in power.
That's not really much of a statement. And I see your attempted dodge. You shifted the goalposts by changing the motif to: do black people "trust" the Federal Government.

But I never said anything about "trust." I asserted they "like" the Federal Government.

Now, they may not "trust" it to actually deliver what they want, at a given time, depending who is in control. And I alluded to this, with the point about black folks seeing the F.Gov like a "gun" which can do well or ill, depending on who's wielding it, and that the benefits outweigh the cons. But over a long period of time, there is no reasonable question as to whether they like it. They vote 90+% democrat like the sun coming up. That is the voting behavior of a group of people who sees the F.Gov as a net benefit to them over time. It's like an unreliable boyfriend they can't trust...but also can't leave.
 

AIRDOO

Plinker
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dec 21, 2011
48
18
Our Idiocracy has turned into one big Uniparty...they both suck. If there is anyone who can't see how corrupt our Gov has become they are the problem. I smh at how blacks just keep on voting D and getting nothing much for it...just the same old Urban Plantation IMHO.
 

Kutnupe14

Grandmaster
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jan 13, 2011
38,526
149
That's not really much of a statement. And I see your attempted dodge. You shifted the goalposts by changing the motif to: do black people "trust" the Federal Government.

But I never said anything about "trust." I asserted they "like" the Federal Government.

Now, they may not "trust" it to actually deliver what they want, at a given time, depending who is in control. And I alluded to this, with the point about black folks seeing the F.Gov like a "gun" which can do well or ill, depending on who's wielding it, and that the benefits outweigh the cons. But over a long period of time, there is no reasonable question as to whether they like it. They vote 90+% democrat like the sun coming up. That is the voting behavior of a group of people who sees the F.Gov as a net benefit to them over time. It's like an unreliable boyfriend they can't trust...but also can't leave.
Maybe this is a newsflash, but Democrats aren’t always the power behind the federal government. And I have no idea what’s behind this “trust” and “like,” debate. If it makes you feels better, in my experience Black people “like” the federal govt as much as they “trust,” it. Again, in MY experience, because, unlike you, I don’t think I can speak universally of an entire race of people - even being a member of said race. What I can say confidently, based on voting trends, that the “like,” and “trust,” alluded to, is somewhat diminished when a Republican is in office.
I can’t help but wonder if I was wrong in thinking that under George Bush, during Katrina, that Black people in Nola, thought highly of the federal govt. Or maybe they did, got upset, for a while, and then all was forgiven.
 

Twangbanger

Master
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Oct 9, 2010
4,360
113
Maybe this is a newsflash, but Democrats aren’t always the power behind the federal government. And I have no idea what’s behind this “trust” and “like,” debate. If it makes you feels better, in my experience Black people “like” the federal govt as much as they “trust,” it. Again, in MY experience, because, unlike you, I don’t think I can speak universally of an entire race of people - even being a member of said race. What I can say confidently, based on voting trends, that the “like,” and “trust,” alluded to, is somewhat diminished when a Republican is in office.
I can’t help but wonder if I was wrong in thinking that under George Bush, during Katrina, that Black people in Nola, thought highly of the federal govt. Or maybe they did, got upset, for a while, and then all was forgiven.
If I recall, the sensational claim of the time wasn't "The Fed.Gov blew up the levees." It was "Bush Blew Up the Levees."

I cannot speak for any group, but I can look at facts and data, and draw conclusions. The above-referenced 90+% voting rate is not just statistically significant. It's statistically overwhelming. It requires an explanation. It cannot just be. No other group in America rewards one party with such unalloyed loyalty.
 

BigRed

Master
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dec 29, 2017
3,283
149
1,000 yards out
If I recall, the sensational claim of the time wasn't "The Fed.Gov blew up the levees." It was "Bush Blew Up the Levees."

I cannot speak for any group, but I can look at facts and data, and draw conclusions. The above-referenced 90+% voting rate is not just statistically significant. It's statistically overwhelming. It requires an explanation. It cannot just be. No other group in America rewards one party with such unalloyed loyalty.

I think the high percentage is explained by Bidet's declaration that if you don't vote for him you're not black.
 
Top Bottom