NRA files for Bankruptcy

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  • tbhausen

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    edit: the quote didn’t come with my reply.

    I haven’t read the thread beyond your post here, but this is going to be interesting.
     
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    AtTheMurph

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    Oliver North was right.

    This was the silver lining in the NY lawsuit against them. We lucked out here, because if the liberals hadn't done our dirty work for us, I'm not sure we could have done it ourselves. Apparently the bylaws of the organization have been repeatedly software-versioned to the point they allowed LaPierre to ascend to "Ruler for Life" status and run the place as his personal fiefdom.

    In a perfect world, he would accept responsibility for this and step down, so that the organization can emerge stronger.

    In reality, he probably sees himself as maligned, and soon, we'll be treated to glossy-schmossy media relations releases with his face on them, decrying how the NY "Anti Gun Cabal" ran NRA into the ground with frivolous, hounding lawsuits, accepting no responsibility for it, and asking for more money so we can "refuse to be silenced" and "emerge stronger to fight the most Anti Gun Administration of this Century."

    The real test is: does LaPierre accept any responsibility?

    There needs to be a "Valentine's Day Massacre" immediately. Fire LaPierre's ass and all his cronies, perp-walk them out the door, and immediately replace him with Oliver North as interim EVP for a limited duration of time, to transition back to health. This transition period needs to include an immediate reversal of the corporate governance provisions which allowed LaPierre to build his fiefdom, so that it can never happen again. Upon emergence from this transition period, the Board should choose a new leader and start TF over.

    Normally, emergence from Bankruptcy entails lining up new funding sources. If "new funding sources" means begging for more money from "us," the above changes are what I need to see, before giving a cent.

    I recommend all other NRA members hold them similarly accountable.

    If I get a single whiff of LaPierre in these money pleas...I'm done with them. I now have the exact same view towards the NRA that I have towards the Republican Party, which is: I'd rather live in a world where they've been nuked off the face of the Earth, than be represented by an organization that wipes its ass with my interests.
    The NRA, Republican & Democrat parties, Labor Unions, Corporations, etc., are for themselves and not for us.

    Never fell for their plea to join. Never sent a penny to any of them. I represent me not them.
     

    tbhausen

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    By the way.... I have yet to hear one solid argument FOR bump stocks, other than freedom.

    And by that logic, we should all be FOR grenade launchers, RPG's, hell, I'd like to own a minigun.
    If the gun lobby was as successful as the LBGTQ-whatevertheycallitthesedays lobby has been, we’d already have tanks and RPG’s.
     

    hoosierhawkeye

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    Even though the Left doesn't like the NRA, this is not on them. All the blame of this is squarely on the greedy corporate structure that either authorized the abuse or turned a blind eye through neglect. they continued over a period of years to take advantage of the membership $$$$$ to live the high life.
     

    marvin02

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    Get used to it. Now days a tablet or computer does all that for children. If it doesn't catch it. It can't correct it. That isn't the person's fault but the education system.
    Spell check is a tool. Like any tool it can be misused. That does not make it right. Taking the time to proof read not only will fix many spelling errors, it sometimes ends up with fixing the logic errors. If you hammer a nail crooked, is it the hammer's fault? We should not get used to laziness and we should be teaching our kids/grandkids that such things are not acceptable.

    And what do the NY lawsuits tell us about the NRA?

    . . .
    The various lawsuits about the NRAs finances tell me that there are probably problems and excesses going on that need to be fixed.

    It appears to me this was all the result of an internal power struggle where a group tried to oust WPL, not by beating him in an election, but by trying to get dirt from Ackerman and oust him. That dirt brought the authorities into the picture and here we are. I'm sure I will be corrected if wrong but that is an overview.

    Is that doing it to themselves?
    If there were no dirt, there would be no leverage against WPL and the NRA. When you lead an organization that is hated by so many why provide fuel for your funeral pyre? If the excesses are as bad as they are depicted it will not be the left or internal political opponents doing the damage, it will be those who failed in upholding the trust placed in them by the membership.
     

    Ingomike

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    The various lawsuits about the NRAs finances tell me that there are probably problems and excesses going on that need to be fixed.


    If there were no dirt, there would be no leverage against WPL and the NRA. When you lead an organization that is hated by so many why provide fuel for your funeral pyre? If the excesses are as bad as they are depicted it will not be the left or internal political opponents doing the damage, it will be those who failed in upholding the trust placed in them by the membership.

    You are being duped by those that wish to destroy the NRA.

    First off they are using class warfare to create division. The average NRA member is likely just middle class. They don't even wear suits, much less go to meetings where everyone is wearing a suit that costs more than your truck. They use the lifestyle and corporate trappings as a cudgel between the members and leaders that are wealthy beyond most of our imaginations. They are, after all navigating the DC swamp, one must look and act the part.

    The purpose of the lawsuits is political, to make allegations against the NRA and leadership. Have any of it been proven in court? (That was the standard many of you espoused in the election fiasco.) Man is inherently evil and often does bad, particularly when money is involved. That the BS they have alleged is so small on a percentage of the organization income is actually not too bad.

    If WPL were fired who would replace him? Who has the ability to lead the organization, the political connections, AND, importantly, who can take the shots the NRA head takes? Who can take the threats to their family? Being cancelled by their friends? Their kids being denied entry to the college of their choice? This is the world today, who can take this? (I want a better coach than Frank Riech, but can't see anyone better that is available.)

    For those with the credentials to run the NRA few would ever take it and most of those mentioned have no experience running a multimillion dollar organization and blending it with the laws, lobbying, and members. I have pondered this quite a bit and have found no easy answers but many of you here just want to eliminate the head without explaining your solution to replacement after you do that. Like it is just magic.

    The fallout from the attempted ousting of WPL is that much of the next rung leadership was purged further hurting the organization and limiting promoting from within. We need to support the NRA as we gird for battle to protect 2A freedoms while voting for board members that support change. We cannot disarm now or fight among ourselves, the battle looms...

    Disclosure: I voted for Kraut to reform the board and organization, my posts are here to back it up.
     

    marvin02

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    You are being duped by those that wish to destroy the NRA.
    I can be convinced by a simple independent audit of the NRAs books. If there is nothing to hide open them up.

    No - I am not being duped. I am looking for answers that I am not getting.
    They don't even wear suits, much less go to meetings where everyone is wearing a suit that costs more than your truck.

    Yep - I am just a member of the dumb working class.


    The average NRA member is likely just middle class

    And why is it "just middle class" you got an iron in the class warfare thing there? You feel better now, explaining all the high goings on to the rest of us poor folk? I agree that NRA membership is probably made up of a lot of middle class people. They probably don't consider themselves "just" in the way you appear to have intended the word.
     

    Ingomike

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    I can be convinced by a simple independent audit of the NRAs books. If there is nothing to hide open them up.

    No - I am not being duped. I am looking for answers that I am not getting.


    Yep - I am just a member of the dumb working class.




    And why is it "just middle class" you got an iron in the class warfare thing there? You feel better now, explaining all the high goings on to the rest of us poor folk? I agree that NRA membership is probably made up of a lot of middle class people. They probably don't consider themselves "just" in the way you appear to have intended the word.

    Reading comprehension instead of looking for ways to be offended like the snowflakes. Just middle class was referenced as the average member who just qualifies income wise to be in that group. Statement of fact of the situation not a judgement.

    The audit argument is a strawman, as soon as Bloomberg opens the books on the anti's I will ask for the same. Otherwise it is unilateral disarmament.

    There is no judgement nor arrogance expressed, just a practical look at the situation and how our common enemies exploit and create divisions among us by making even the discussion of what and how they do it divisive. Don't fall for their tricks...
     

    Jaybird1980

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    I can be convinced by a simple independent audit of the NRAs books. If there is nothing to hide open them up.

    No - I am not being duped. I am looking for answers that I am not getting.


    Yep - I am just a member of the dumb working class.




    And why is it "just middle class" you got an iron in the class warfare thing there? You feel better now, explaining all the high goings on to the rest of us poor folk? I agree that NRA membership is probably made up of a lot of middle class people. They probably don't consider themselves "just" in the way you appear to have intended the word.
    I think the point being made was the same as I stated on post #156 of this thread.

    If we are all to busy fighting amongst ourselves, then we are not fighting them. That strategy is working perfect for them. Strength comes from Unity.
     

    marvin02

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    Reading comprehension instead of looking for ways to be offended like the snowflakes
    I can read well enough to know that your arguments are insulting. Telling someone to not look for ways to be offended and then name calling doesn't bolster your position.
    The audit argument is a strawman, as soon as Bloomberg opens the books on the anti's I will ask for the same. Otherwise it is unilateral disarmament.
    I don't contribute to Bloomberg, but I do to the NRA (dues). I don't subscribe to the argument that wrong is right if everybody is doing it.
    There is no judgement nor arrogance expressed
    Writing in an arrogant way and then saying that you did not is not the same as not being arrogant.

    Don't fall for their tricks...
    Because the only way I could come to a different conclusion than you is to be duped, not read well, and to be tricked? Nope, no arrogance at all there.
     

    Ingomike

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    I can read well enough to know that your arguments are insulting. Telling someone to not look for ways to be offended and then name calling doesn't bolster your position.

    I don't contribute to Bloomberg, but I do to the NRA (dues). I don't subscribe to the argument that wrong is right if everybody is doing it.

    Writing in an arrogant way and then saying that you did not is not the same as not being arrogant.


    Because the only way I could come to a different conclusion than you is to be duped, not read well, and to be tricked? Nope, no arrogance at all there.
    Is my description of our members in any way inaccurate? Are we not mostly middle class and down? How many NRA members or supporters are rich? Are the CEO's of most big money non profits wealthy? Looks like most are. The anti's are simply stoking that to divide us.
     

    jamil

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    Is my description of our members in any way inaccurate? Are we not mostly middle class and down? How many NRA members or supporters are rich? Are the CEO's of most big money non profits wealthy? Looks like most are. The anti's are simply stoking that to divide us.
    I think the thing dividing us on this issue right now is that many people want to know that their hard earned money is not going into someone's $40K suit pocket. And right now that's a pretty serious question. And the guy being accused is acting like it's an empire to keep control of no matter what. So if you act like you're protecting an empire, it's fair to suspect that he's protecting an empire.

    Not donating to the NRA is the middle class way to bring about change. Shank WLP and the floodgates of cash flow back in.

    The NRA is not the only gun rights org. But also, I still think that NRA-ILA is still worth donating to. It's my understanding (INGO can correct me if I'm wrong) that NRA-ILA funds aren't accessible to WLP to use for his personal use. Those funds still go to lobbying, and 2A rights.
     

    Ingomike

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    I think the thing dividing us on this issue right now is that many people want to know that their hard earned money is not going into someone's $40 suit pocket. And right now that's a pretty serious question. And the guy being accused is acting like it's an empire to keep control of no matter what. So if you act like you're protecting an empire, it's fair to suspect that he's protecting an empire.

    Not donating to the NRA is the middle class way to bring about change. Shank WLP and the floodgates of cash flow back in.

    The NRA is not the only gun rights org. But also, I still think that NRA-ILA is still worth donating to. It's my understanding (INGO can correct me if I'm wrong) that NRA-ILA funds aren't accessible to WLP to use for his personal use. Those funds still go to lobbying, and 2A rights.
    Don't disagree with anything here. Just that if we all stop being members the power of the lobby are is reduced. The power of the NRA was always the votes they deliver both for and against...
     

    jamil

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    Don't disagree with anything here. Just that if we all stop being members the power of the lobby are is reduced. The power of the NRA was always the votes they deliver both for and against...
    We don't all stop being 2A supporting gun owners when we stop supporting a .org that's not using our money wisely, or honestly. A LOT of people who were not NRA members participated in saving our asses back in 2013. I was a member at the time. But non-members participated with us, frantically writing letters and making phone calls and making noise and whatnot to ensure that the Republicans in the Senate know where their votes come from. We didn't avoid major gun control legislation then because the NRA saved our asses. We won because gun owners played a major part. And we should not play down the significance of that. We'll probably need to do it again within the next 4 years.
     

    BugI02

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    You are being duped by those that wish to destroy the NRA.

    First off they are using class warfare to create division. The average NRA member is likely just middle class. They don't even wear suits, much less go to meetings where everyone is wearing a suit that costs more than your truck. They use the lifestyle and corporate trappings as a cudgel between the members and leaders that are wealthy beyond most of our imaginations. They are, after all navigating the DC swamp, one must look and act the part.
    This is ridiculous. The power of the NRA was in accurately representing its membership and being able to deliver reliably millions of votes for or against an issue or a politician precisely because it so closely represented its membership. What kind of clothing the man heading such an organization wore had zero to do with anything, wearing a Patek Phillipe instead of a Rolex doesn't make your viewpoint heard any better it just seduces that organization head to want to be one with the swamp. If he really embodied the organization he could dress like a used car salesman and no one would care
    The purpose of the lawsuits is political, to make allegations against the NRA and leadership. Have any of it been proven in court? (That was the standard many of you espoused in the election fiasco.) Man is inherently evil and often does bad, particularly when money is involved. That the BS they have alleged is so small on a percentage of the organization income is actually not too bad.
    It is funny, in a sad sort of way, that you of all people want allegations proven in court. The facts are out there and there was testimony by former insiders of the ad agency, caused by the obvious greed of WLP and the aggravated split of the two businesses. He was paid enough to cover his own bills
    If WPL were fired who would replace him? Who has the ability to lead the organization, the political connections, AND, importantly, who can take the shots the NRA head takes? Who can take the threats to their family? Being cancelled by their friends? Their kids being denied entry to the college of their choice? This is the world today, who can take this? (I want a better coach than Frank Riech, but can't see anyone better that is available.)
    Colion Noir, Oliver North, Mike Rowe, T Lex, almost any real CEO from the corporate world. Anybody living in the heartland won't have to be cancelled by their friends, and threats to your family are one of the reasons we have guns
    For those with the credentials to run the NRA few would ever take it and most of those mentioned have no experience running a multimillion dollar organization and blending it with the laws, lobbying, and members. I have pondered this quite a bit and have found no easy answers but many of you here just want to eliminate the head without explaining your solution to replacement after you do that. Like it is just magic.
    Credentialism is always a mistake. Find someone with experience running a similar organization unpopular with some, such as one devoted to hunting or 4 wheeling. All they need are organizational skills and a sense of what the membership wants them to accomplish - maybe try listening to the members
    The fallout from the attempted ousting of WPL is that much of the next rung leadership was purged further hurting the organization and limiting promoting from within. We need to support the NRA as we gird for battle to protect 2A freedoms while voting for board members that support change. We cannot disarm now or fight among ourselves, the battle looms...
    The next rung was considered corrupt because they were riding the WLP gravy train instead of doing due diligence. You can't make an omelet with defenestrating a few sleezeballs
    Disclosure: I voted for Kraut to reform the board and organization, my posts are here to back it up.
    They have two choices, learn to live without Wayne and his cronies and amend the charter to allow oversight or just learn to live without everything. Wayne has GOT to go, at a minimum, and the new sheriff has to have a mandate to clean house
     

    BugI02

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    Is my description of our members in any way inaccurate? Are we not mostly middle class and down? How many NRA members or supporters are rich? Are the CEO's of most big money non profits wealthy? Looks like most are. The anti's are simply stoking that to divide us.
    A greedy, blood-sucking CEO in NY State won't suddenly become an able administrator just by moving to Texas. Smoke and mirrors. For an organization like the NRA, the head should be a true believer in RKBA, not someone we pay to go through the motions. LaPierre has shown us who he is, we should believe him. The sooner he goes, the sooner rebuilding in earnest can start. Keeping him is building a house on sand
     
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    BugI02

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    I think the thing dividing us on this issue right now is that many people want to know that their hard earned money is not going into someone's $40K suit pocket. And right now that's a pretty serious question. And the guy being accused is acting like it's an empire to keep control of no matter what. So if you act like you're protecting an empire, it's fair to suspect that he's protecting an empire.

    Not donating to the NRA is the middle class way to bring about change. Shank WLP and the floodgates of cash flow back in.

    The NRA is not the only gun rights org. But also, I still think that NRA-ILA is still worth donating to. It's my understanding (INGO can correct me if I'm wrong) that NRA-ILA funds aren't accessible to WLP to use for his personal use. Those funds still go to lobbying, and 2A rights.
    This. If somehow he actually doesn't deserve it, he can get a real job somewhere and feel good that he took one for what was supposed to be his team

    I'm sure his masterful lobbying skills will be in demand on K street
     
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