NRA files for Bankruptcy

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  • XbigcheezX

    Plinker
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    All right, I am done making my arguments here.

    I think that before you reject the NRA because of their decision on the bump stocks, consider the wins this year alone.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ges-are-already-handing-huge-wins-to-the-nra/ (a mother jones article...)

    Just a few I found by searching NRA wins 2020. Do your homework, and make up your own minds about who is really in the trenches fighting for our rights right now. Better yet, find me something better.
     

    XbigcheezX

    Plinker
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    What ammo, do we have in the can to fight what is coming. Right now, I see the NRA, governors, and the next election in 2 years for our representatives and about 33.33339% of our senators.

    Lobbying will be the most important aspect of our gun rights for the next 24 months, whether you like it or not.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    All right, I am done making my arguments here.

    I think that before you reject the NRA because of their decision on the bump stocks, consider the wins this year alone.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ges-are-already-handing-huge-wins-to-the-nra/ (a mother jones article...)

    Just a few I found by searching NRA wins 2020. Do your homework, and make up your own minds about who is really in the trenches fighting for our rights right now. Better yet, find me something better.
    In truth these were not on my radar.
    Thank you.
     

    XbigcheezX

    Plinker
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    A man firing into a crowd.
    I'm pretty sure I'd have had a better effectiveness without one.

    My point is though, if people say they're useless, which was stated earlier in the thread, then they don't need to be banned.
    I am a little disturbed that you think you would have been more effective than 58 killed, 876 injured (411 with bullet/shrapnel wounds). 1 person, in a hotel room, at 200yds+.

    You do realize that is much more than 1000 rounds downrange? please explain how you would have been more effective...
     
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    XbigcheezX

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    I can't find the cartoon.
    Goes something like..
    anti - gunners pick something.
    we "compromise" and lose a piece of the pie.
    anti - gunner picks something else.
    we "compromise" and lose another piece of the pie.
    repeat
    repeat.

    Pretty soon, we are left with the crumbs.
    Your logic is self absorbing, losing without gaining. Perhaps you are not focused on gaining.
     

    ljk

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    We need a gun lobby that the dems fear again. That's not gonna happen, if we keep eating our own.
    They don't fear NRA because they knew it has destroyed itself from within. The NRA is just an well known name which the Dems use it as a fundraising tool to preach their donors.
     

    XbigcheezX

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    They don't fear NRA because they knew it has destroyed itself from within. The NRA is just an well known name which the Dems use it as a fundraising tool to preach their donors.
    Truth, and they do. However they are not dead, they have focused everything on legislative and court related matters while they make some political movements. The best thing for the NRA is to stay strong in Fairfax VA, right next door to DC. Let's help them do that.

     
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    XbigcheezX

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    I believe we headed off a republican assisted AWB with the misdirection of the bumpstock ban...
    Sorry, don't know what awb means, and that was 4 years ago. My debate here had nothing to do with the bump stock ban, it had much more to do with why we are so divided right now, and it has nothing to do with the current election. We need to unite and support something united, quickly, or we're ****ed.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    They don't fear NRA because they knew it has destroyed itself from within. The NRA is just an well known name which the Dems use it as a fundraising tool to preach their donors.
    I dissagree.

    They don't fear the NRA, because they believe that they effectively killed it.
    Remember, it was the dems doing that brought all of this Wayne cloths spending stuff to light. All of this "I just can't" coming out of a lot of us is a victory for them. Eating our own... :facepalm:

    Right out of the dem Saul Alinski playbook...
    13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.



    If we just rewind back to 2016, does Donald Trump win the election without the strong lobby of the NRA?
    Could be that we just seen the answer to that question in 2020? :dunno:


    ...
     
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    XbigcheezX

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    I dissagree.

    They don't fear the NRA, because they believe that they effectively killed it.
    Remember, it was the dems doing that brought all of this Wayne cloths spending stuff to light. All of this "I just can't" coming out of a lot of us is a victory for them. Eating our own... :facepalm:

    Right out of the dem Saul Alinski playbook...
    13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.



    If we just rewind back to 2016, does Donald Trump win the election without the strong lobby of the NRA?
    Could be that we just seen the answer to that question in 2020? :dunno:
    This is some truth right here, Alinski strategy, clear as day. If those of you have not done your homework on Alinski, or have read Rules For Radicals, you don't understand how real this is. These are the fundamentals of what they are teaching in Liberal Arts courses today at our finest institutions.

    here is the cliff notes version for a tldr; "Saul Alinsky's 13 Tried-and-True Rules for Creating Meaningful Social Change | Open Culture" https://www.openculture.com/2017/02/13-rules-for-radicals.html
     
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    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    They don't fear NRA because they knew it has destroyed itself from within. The NRA is just an well known name which the Dems use it as a fundraising tool to preach their donors.
    Can not argue either points.

    Left unchecked human nature will do just this. Think Enron and all the rest that have followed.
     

    Libertarian01

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    Ok, Ok... Fair enough everyone, and I don't necessarily completely disagree with the logic ljk presents here (and others), however I can make a valid argument for needing a weapon for self defense, hunting, and sports. I cannot do the same for a bump stock. I live in Gary, IN. My local convenience store was robbed two weeks ago, the owner shot in the hand confronting the assailant (need for a firearm for protection). My closest gas station had a carjacking 3 weeks ago by 3 assailants (need for higher capacity magazines, for defense in those situations). I have family in Georgia that depends on hunting for food (need for hunting). I live next to section 8 housing that borders the national park, and the kids there go shooting in their back yard every new year, 4th of July, etc. I depend on my firearms for protection, live with this daily reality, and unfortunate reminders, that I may have to defend myself or my family.

    My point is that bump stocks are pretty worthless for anything more than fun, or as we saw in Vegas, a really bad outcome. Their intent is to circumvent the NFA. While I have my own problems with the NFA, and would like to see many parts of it repealed. I understand why it exists. I have also gone through the process to get a Class 3 stamp, and therefore know exactly what is involved in the process. It is no picnic and it took forever, but it wasn't like having a colonoscopy.

    Flipping the logic I am seeing on it's head, one could also replace 'Bump Stocks' with 'Tank', 'Grenade Launcher', 'Rocket Launcher', 'Plastic Explosives'. Now I am all for freedom, and I also believe the primary purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure our citizenry maintains a well regulated militia as a check against failed government, but there has to be a balance somewhere.

    When I lived in Indy, I didn't care too much about some of these more direct issues until I moved to NWI and had to commute every day into Illinois, unarmed. I would like to see progress towards reciprocity and my rights to protect myself where I live and work. There are other issues I would like to see progress on, but this one is my highest, and it can only be rectified at the federal level.

    Biden and Harris want to ban all online sales of firearm related products, limit magazine capacity, limit private transactions without background checks, expand red flag laws, SMART gun requirements, registration of 'assault rifles', and more. https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

    I totally get why the NRA backed off against the Bump Stock ban, there are other/higher priorities at stake. And now we have probably the worst political situation at the federal level since the Brady Bill was passed. If we don't come together in some capacity and confront this threat, we stand to lose decades of progress on these issues.

    It is for those reasons I continue to stand by the NRA, and will continue to support them. I support other groups as well, but not at the cost of weakening our strongest lobbying representation.


    I won't address everything here as there is a lot, and I appreciate your sharing these thoughts.

    However, I would like to share a thought with you: Lenny Bruce. Some might wonder why I would bring up a comedian in a bump stock conversation. Lenny Bruce was arrested in 1961 for using an obscene word. Just a word. Yet, that word violated "community standards" at the time. He was arrested on multiple occasions after that as well. Some for possession of marijuana, mostly though for using bad words.

    The argument could well be used that Lenny did not need to use those words. Lenny could have been funny without them, and that would be true. He was a funny guy. However, rights are not based upon needs or functionality or even proper decorum. They exist for many reasons. In Lenny's case it was to express himself and be humorous at a crass level using shock comedy at the time. And over time Lenny's position defeated tyrannical government overreach.

    Bumpstocks were invented to find a legal response to our governments overreach against fully automatic weapons. The basic NEED for citizen ownership of fully automatic weapons is to over greater strength in someday, if NEEDED, to resist an oppressive or tyrannical government, either foreign or domestic.

    The greater amount of firepower that is in private citizens hands that can be justly used to resist governmental overreach disincentivizes that government to overreach in the first place. It's similar on a much smaller scale to nuclear deterrence. No nation that possesses nuclear weapons ever wants to use them, but they are kept anyway to deter aggression from other nations. Deterrence can be a very good thing.

    Bump stocks put greater firepower legally in the hands of private citizens once again. That firepower could well have acted as a deterrence against large scale, intentional, government oppression. That they have been banned removes an impediment to government overreach.

    On a purely practical level, guns are extremely ineffective for killing lots of people, despite how dramatic the news makes it. Bombs are much more effective. Want to kill a LOT of people? Box truck + fertilizer + diesel fuel = mass casualty event. See the Alfred P Murrah bombing. 168 killed in seconds. Las Vegas shooting? Killed 60, almost 1/3 of Oklahoma City. Chemical weapons would work well too and be a lot more terrifying. In other words, if someone wants to kill a lot of folks and do damage banning bump stocks will not impact this issue in the slightest.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Hawkeye

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    Sorry, don't know what awb means, and that was 4 years ago. My debate here had nothing to do with the bump stock ban, it had much more to do with why we are so divided right now, and it has nothing to do with the current election. We need to unite and support something united, quickly, or we're ******.
    AWB = Assault Weapons Ban.
     

    DadSmith

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    So you're saying I should be annoyed with people that use TapTalk and are too lazy to go back and correct their text before hitting the post button. It IS their fault! It's the person's responsibility to educate themselves, not the government's. Depending on the government is how we wound up here in the first place!
    Since public schools stopped having children actually use pencil and paper I'd say yes. There is a lack of learning in that department. Also imo only thing teachers seem to be more into teaching Marxism than reading writing and arithmetic.
     
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    jamil

    code ho
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    Probably going to need those extra children to work the fields when the socialist system collapses. I.e., Venezuela.
    Well. That's the problem with socialist systems. The more people there are the less sustainable it is.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    I believe we headed off a republican assisted AWB with the misdirection of the bumpstock ban...
    You think that the house and senate had enough votes FOR an AWB to override Trump's veto? Or were you just afraid that Trump wouldn't veto it.

    The bump stock nonsense did not work as a misdirection. So you think Las Vegas shooter did his thing, the anti-gun zealots were screeming for an AWB, Trump says, okay, we'll see about making those evil bump stocks (nod-wink) go away. And then the anti-gun zealots calmed down?

    Las Vegas happened on Oct 1, 2017. A month later, Nov 5 2017, the Southerland Springs TX church shooting happened. 3-1/2 months after that, the Stoneman Douglass High School shooting happened Feb 14, 2018. The bump stock ban went into effect in March 2019. So you're trying to tell me that the ATF writing off bumpstocks that didn't even take effect until two years later, placated the rabid anti-gun zealots frothing at the mouth over the course of 3 mass shootings? That's utterly ridiculous. C'mon man.
     
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