New to the carry optics game...

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  • MCgrease08

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    I applaud you folks that can shoot with the precision that makes anything past 20-25ish yards much of a consideration for realistic acceptable "groups." :)
    As far as practical application goes, using a slight (.5 inch) holdover makes sense at 5 yards or less. For instance, aiming at the top of the 2" circle when doing a dot torture drill. For everything else out to 50 yards, it's pretty much put the dot on target and shoot. I sure as heck am not good enough of a shooter to be worrying about trying to account for a 1 inch shift in POI at those distances.

    It's also helpful to know what your holdover should be at 100 yds just in case you ever need to make that shot, but the rest is just academic.
     

    cedartop

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    Because I have been shooting my new Walther Q5 SF so much lately I took the Trijicon SRO off of my G45 and put it on the Walther as I was having some intermittent dimming issues with the Holosun I had on it. I have to say I am not sure I like using the SRO any better than the 507C. Yes it is a bigger field of view but the dot for me is pretty dirty. I guess I will see how it goes at the match this weekend.
     

    climber1218

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    I just realized that I can no longer focus on my front sight...ugh! I am signed up for a red dot specific course at the Lebanon Police Range in September and am in the process of selling my handguns and replacing them with optics-ready guns. I do not compete but do take occasional classes at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc... I own an RMR but do not like the fact that I need to remove it from the gun to replace the battery. Any recommendations for handgun/optic combinations that work best together? Thanks.
     

    gregkl

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    I just realized that I can no longer focus on my front sight...ugh! I am signed up for a red dot specific course at the Lebanon Police Range in September and am in the process of selling my handguns and replacing them with optics-ready guns. I do not compete but do take occasional classes at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc... I own an RMR but do not like the fact that I need to remove it from the gun to replace the battery. Any recommendations for handgun/optic combinations that work best together? Thanks.
    I get the vision issues! I spent several years trying to shoot my pistols with irons. Nothing seemed to work. So I got a dot and the funny thing is, after practicing with the dot I can now shoot my irons better than I did before. And yes, the front sight is still blurry. I suspect it has more to do with overall practice than some kind of mojo from using a dot. :)

    You only have to remove the RMR once per year and at that you are being conservative since it will probably stay lit for several years.

    As far as recommendations, most pistols can either be purchased with adaptors to run your choice of red dot or can be milled. Choose the firearm you want/like first then if it's available in optics ready form you can do that. Or you can send it out to be milled for your dot.

    Pros/cons of optics ready: pro: if you want to change optics, you just use another adaptor. con; some think the "generic" milling along with the plate causing the optic to sit a little higher is not the best set up.

    Pros/cons of milling the slide: pro; the milling is specific to the optic so potentially you will get a better fit plus it sits a little lower on the slide. con; if you change optics you are probably looking at purchasing a new slide and again paying to have it milled.
     

    climber1218

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    I get the vision issues! I spent several years trying to shoot my pistols with irons. Nothing seemed to work. So I got a dot and the funny thing is, after practicing with the dot I can now shoot my irons better than I did before. And yes, the front sight is still blurry. I suspect it has more to do with overall practice than some kind of mojo from using a dot. :)

    You only have to remove the RMR once per year and at that you are being conservative since it will probably stay lit for several years.

    As far as recommendations, most pistols can either be purchased with adaptors to run your choice of red dot or can be milled. Choose the firearm you want/like first then if it's available in optics ready form you can do that. Or you can send it out to be milled for your dot.

    Pros/cons of optics ready: pro: if you want to change optics, you just use another adaptor. con; some think the "generic" milling along with the plate causing the optic to sit a little higher is not the best set up.

    Pros/cons of milling the slide: pro; the milling is specific to the optic so potentially you will get a better fit plus it sits a little lower on the slide. con; if you change optics you are probably looking at purchasing a new slide and again paying to have it milled.
    Thanks for the prompt reply. I will probably keep the RMR but will also look at a Holosun 507C-X2...the circle/dot option looks interesting and they have been getting good reviews! I have several XDMs and like the feel in my hand...I have noticed that it is hard to get those milled since the rear sight on the OSP versions are mounted much more toward the rear of the slide than on the iron sight versions...I just listed those for sale and hope to buy the OSP Elite to replace them?
     

    gregkl

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    Thanks for the prompt reply. I will probably keep the RMR but will also look at a Holosun 507C-X2...the circle/dot option looks interesting and they have been getting good reviews! I have several XDMs and like the feel in my hand...I have noticed that it is hard to get those milled since the rear sight on the OSP versions are mounted much more toward the rear of the slide than on the iron sight versions...I just listed those for sale and hope to buy the OSP Elite to replace them?
    Holosun's are good optics. Honestly could have been just fine with mine but I wanted a larger dot.

    I'm not familiar with the Springfield striker guns. Probably one of the few striker fired pistols I have not tried,lol.

    Sounds like you are on the right track.
     

    dudley0

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    Thanks for the prompt reply. I will probably keep the RMR but will also look at a Holosun 507C-X2...the circle/dot option looks interesting and they have been getting good reviews! I have several XDMs and like the feel in my hand...I have noticed that it is hard to get those milled since the rear sight on the OSP versions are mounted much more toward the rear of the slide than on the iron sight versions...I just listed those for sale and hope to buy the OSP Elite to replace them?
    I should have my Holosun 507c back in a week or so. Sent slide, dot and new sights in to get worked on. I did the rubber band test on top of a cleared gun just for giggles and liked it pretty much.

    I am over on the other side of Grant county. When I get it all back and run a few rounds thru it maybe we can meet up and you can see how you like the dot with the circle. I still have a Holosun with the Vulvan reticle on backorder. Shows 18APR2022 as possible ship date. If the one I bought doesn't pan out they have the same footprint.
     

    cbhausen

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    Well, my RMR is zeroed at 25 yards. Now I need to get some RDS handgun training. Suggestions? This needs to be in or near central Indiana. I remember hearing maybe up in Lebanon?

    I forgot to add I still have a Holosun 507C ACSS Vulcan on backorder but I went ahead and got a Trijicon RMR in the meantime. Pistol is a Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS. Holster is a Safariland 7378 7TS RDS.
     

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    MCgrease08

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    Well, my RMR is zeroed at 25 yards. Now I need to get some RDS handgun training. Suggestions? This needs to be in or near central Indiana. I remember hearing maybe up in Lebanon?

    I forgot to add I still have a Holosun 507C ACSS Vulcan on backorder but I went ahead and got a Trijicon RMR in the meantime. Pistol is a Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS. Holster is a Safariland 7378 7TS RDS.
    Sage Dynamics RDS class August 14-15. (I'll be at this one.)

    Scott Jedlinski (Modern Samurai Project) at the end of September.


    Links to each training site in the OP.
     

    dudley0

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    I need to look into those classes as well. Only one range trip with my RDS, and that was just to function check. Doing a lot of dry fire. Just trying to get comfortable with it.

    Did notice that the auto dim feature is great until it sucks. I turned it off. Not running at max brightness because damn, but at least now I can see the dot when standing in a dark area pointing out to a much brighter area.

    My Vulcan is now showing it will ship on the 19th of this month.

    Not sure if I want to keep it or not. The idea of having two different looks (dot vs chevron) worries me that under stress I might look for one instead of the other.

    Guess that's what training is for.
     

    MCgrease08

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    My Vulcan is now showing it will ship on the 19th of this month.

    Not sure if I want to keep it or not. The idea of having two different looks (dot vs chevron) worries me that under stress I might look for one instead of the other.
    Figure out which one you like better and go with it.

    Considering the hype around the Vulcan, I don't think you'd have any trouble selling it off if you don't like it.
     

    gregkl

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    After working with my red dot M&P for about 9-10 months now, I broke out my 1911(9mm) yesterday and thought I'd shoot once. I ran a couple of drills back to back with my 2.0 compact.

    I don't know if I should be happy or sad. I shot the 1911 more accurately, my draw to first round was faster and my overall times were faster.

    I'm going back this morning to run some other drills that I have been doing with the compact since last fall and see how it does.

    It's kinda disappointing that I have been working that red dot consistently over time and I pick up a pistol I haven't much in several years and I do better with it.

    I'll see how today goes but I may have to decide if I'm being stubborn since I have been such a proponent of the red dot and I don't want to switch back therefore feeling like I failed or do I shoot the pistol I shoot best and train with it to get even better?
     

    dudley0

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    How much time have you spent with the 1911 over the years? Maybe that muscle memory still resides.

    I am still working on not chasing the dot when I dry fire. I figure there is no sense in running more ammo thru it until I can get consistent with my draw stroke.
     
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    wtburnette

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    For me, the trick is to have a consistent draw, or as close as possible. If you do, the dot is "just there". I find that squeezing with the pinky a bit more tends to bring the dot down into proper alignment, but aside from that a consistent draw works pretty well for me. I even did just about as well playing around with my PDP the other day, instead of the P10c I normally run and while a tad slower, I had no issues finding the dot.
     

    gregkl

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    It's not just finding the dot for me. Without doing the actual math, I run in the low 2 second range for the first shot. Sometimes sub 2 seconds. Today with the 1911, was slightly slower, closer to mid 2 seconds (2.33, 2.39) with a couple sub 2 second. Overall times for some of the drills were a little slower though. Bill drill I was faster. Controlled pairs I was faster overall and quicker to first shot. Texas star may have been a record for me at 8.21. Failure drill was about the same.

    Outside of finding the dot, I just plain miss with the M&P. Some time I just slow down and take some careful aim to make sure the dot is still zeroed, lol.

    Keep in mind, I have been training with the M&P since last August almost every weekend at least 100 rounds each session. Plus some dry fire all the while never touching my 1911.

    As far as muscle memory on the 1911, I don't think that is it considering I don't have a ton of time behind pistols period. I really just stated shooting pistols a few years ago. Even though I grew up with firearms, we didn't actually shoot much. We were hunters; we did a few sighter shots prior to hunting season and went hunting.

    I do know that if I just send it when the sight gets on the target, that light single action trigger doesn't impart the movement like I am getting with my M&P so I think that is contributing to my better accuracy.
     

    TomO

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    Just curious to hear y’all’s opinion. I’m cross eye dominant and I’ve been considering trying out a pistol optic. Does an optic help or hurt the eye dominance issue?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    cedartop

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    It's not just finding the dot for me. Without doing the actual math, I run in the low 2 second range for the first shot. Sometimes sub 2 seconds. Today with the 1911, was slightly slower, closer to mid 2 seconds (2.33, 2.39) with a couple sub 2 second. Overall times for some of the drills were a little slower though. Bill drill I was faster. Controlled pairs I was faster overall and quicker to first shot. Texas star may have been a record for me at 8.21. Failure drill was about the same.

    Outside of finding the dot, I just plain miss with the M&P. Some time I just slow down and take some careful aim to make sure the dot is still zeroed, lol.

    Keep in mind, I have been training with the M&P since last August almost every weekend at least 100 rounds each session. Plus some dry fire all the while never touching my 1911.

    As far as muscle memory on the 1911, I don't think that is it considering I don't have a ton of time behind pistols period. I really just stated shooting pistols a few years ago. Even though I grew up with firearms, we didn't actually shoot much. We were hunters; we did a few sighter shots prior to hunting season and went hunting.

    I do know that if I just send it when the sight gets on the target, that light single action trigger doesn't impart the movement like I am getting with my M&P so I think that is contributing to my better accuracy.
    I think your last paragraph is a big part of it. I would say trigger control is an issue for you (as it is for most people to some extent) and the 1911 is going to be a much more forgiving platform for that problem.

    Another issue many people, including myself, have with a RDS is over confirming the dot. In actual practice we should be more target focused shooting a dot gun with the dot visible but not actually looking at it. Focusing on the dot and waiting for it to settle will definitely slow you down.
     
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