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New to the carry optics game...
- Thread starter bwframe
- Start date
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I've carried my MOS RDS guns around the property for 8ish months, always switching to old G19 with irons for actual carry on the street. I dry fired fairly extensively early on with the dots. As of late, my "drills" have been the normal routine of pushing out to a "target" anytime the gun goes in or out of the holster, no trigger pulling involved.
Lovemywoods kicked me in the but and got me over to his range to sight in the the RDS guns last week. It went well and by the end of the session his steel was in real trouble. The suggested many reps have paid off and shooting the RDS guns rival my iron sight ability.
I finished the day happy enough with equipment and my own performance to make the switch to carry the MOS/RDS guns. I sold the old iron sighted G19 last week.
Lovemywoods kicked me in the but and got me over to his range to sight in the the RDS guns last week. It went well and by the end of the session his steel was in real trouble. The suggested many reps have paid off and shooting the RDS guns rival my iron sight ability.
I finished the day happy enough with equipment and my own performance to make the switch to carry the MOS/RDS guns. I sold the old iron sighted G19 last week.
Nice progress. I am getting better with practice. I am now faster getting on target with the RDS than I was with irons.
I have to believe that is the rule rather than the exception. If it wasn't, one would be allowed to run red dots in action pistol in stock production classes.
And like you say, dry fire really helps. I took three days off from dry fire due to family issues and yesterday at the range, it took a few rounds to get my speed back. I ended my session doing my drills faster than the week before though.
Got all excited when I got a notification from Kenzies Optics for back in stock: Holosun 407K X2, but then when I went to the link, it's just now available to be backordered.
Hoping these come out soon. Looks like a good optic to start on.
Hoping these come out soon. Looks like a good optic to start on.
Updating this thread. I ended up removing the Holosun from my pistol and replaced it with the RMR with the 6.5 MOA dot. I really like it. The Holosun was fine, but in hindsight I should have forgone the DT mount, the red dot and just jumped in head first.
I knew I was going to like the red dot concept. It was only a matter of training.
I'm getting better. Still not ready for prime time, but I will get there.
Next up is a RMRCC for my Shield.
I knew I was going to like the red dot concept. It was only a matter of training.
I'm getting better. Still not ready for prime time, but I will get there.
Next up is a RMRCC for my Shield.
When I decided to go with a dot I started over with everything. Went through all of Coaches classes and did a couple of the Carry competitions. Did some of the classes twice just to improve. Currently have an RMR on my G19 and on all 3 of my HD guns. Nightstand gun has a light on it and that's the only difference. Takes some getting used to but with my aging eyes it's the best solution I've found yet.
YMMV
Bob
YMMV
Bob
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I see you made it here and the thread is still operational! Nice.
I thought I'd post an experience I had today. I left my 2.0 Compact with the RD at home today and just had my Shield with irons at the range. I ran through the usual drills. I was surprised (and happy) that my accuracy and times were in some cases better than what I have been doing with my compact. Yes, some were slower and I didn't clean the Texas Star today, but overall if I took some kind of total "score" of today's trip, it would have edged out previous range sessions with my compact.
I read this as I just need more work with the RD. I'm not ready to surmise that I am better without it. With irons, the front sight is fuzzy and I have to close my left eye to be able to get on target faster. But I was faster in most of the drills.
I think I'm going to go back tomorrow and run the same drills in the same order with my compact and see how it does.
I read this as I just need more work with the RD. I'm not ready to surmise that I am better without it. With irons, the front sight is fuzzy and I have to close my left eye to be able to get on target faster. But I was faster in most of the drills.
I think I'm going to go back tomorrow and run the same drills in the same order with my compact and see how it does.
I am finding the skills needed to shoot a pistol optic appear to be improving my iron sights skills as well. Check out Aaron Cowen's RDS videos (Sage Dynamics).
Random configuration question.
Anyone happen to know whether it's possible to mill a VP9 slide for a RMR footprint with the back up sights in front of the optic?
I'm not sold on the idea of having the dot between rear and front irons, but I have yet to see a VP9 set up any other way.
It seems like there would be room to bring the optic cut all the way back to the current rear site channel and just cut a new dove tail in front of the RDS, but I don't see any major shops offering that configuration.
Anyone happen to know whether it's possible to mill a VP9 slide for a RMR footprint with the back up sights in front of the optic?
I'm not sold on the idea of having the dot between rear and front irons, but I have yet to see a VP9 set up any other way.
It seems like there would be room to bring the optic cut all the way back to the current rear site channel and just cut a new dove tail in front of the RDS, but I don't see any major shops offering that configuration.
I'm no help on your VP9 but I am interested in your reasoning for wanting the sight in front and not behind the optic.
This might be what I am experiencing.
I subscribe to Aaron Cowen's channel. I like the content he puts out though I do need to consult a dictionary now and then.
Back from the range. Ran the same drills today with my Compact. I put together a "score" on my targets to be able to take into consideration not only the time but accuracy. On the Skills Check drill:
Single shot from draw; I averaged 2.29 with the Shield, 2.34 compact
2 shots from draw: avg 2.86 Shield, 3.25 compact
6 shots from draw; avg 5.39 Shield, 5.43 compact
I scored a 111 with the shield and 115 with the compact. My overall group was tighter with the compact though I had zero bullseyes. I did have 3 with the Shield.
On the Wizard Drill I was slower on the first 3 stages with the compact. Only on the last stage; 2 to the body, was I faster.
Failure drill I did a 3.46 and 3.11 with the Shield and 3.83 and 3.25 with the compact.
I know those numbers are like a snail compared to you super hero shooters but I have to start somewhere.
I'm going to continue with the red dot through the winter and see how I'm doing in the spring. I was getting ready to send my Shield slide in for milling for a red dot, but I'm going to sit tight for now and see how I develop.
Single shot from draw; I averaged 2.29 with the Shield, 2.34 compact
2 shots from draw: avg 2.86 Shield, 3.25 compact
6 shots from draw; avg 5.39 Shield, 5.43 compact
I scored a 111 with the shield and 115 with the compact. My overall group was tighter with the compact though I had zero bullseyes. I did have 3 with the Shield.
On the Wizard Drill I was slower on the first 3 stages with the compact. Only on the last stage; 2 to the body, was I faster.
Failure drill I did a 3.46 and 3.11 with the Shield and 3.83 and 3.25 with the compact.
I know those numbers are like a snail compared to you super hero shooters but I have to start somewhere.
I'm going to continue with the red dot through the winter and see how I'm doing in the spring. I was getting ready to send my Shield slide in for milling for a red dot, but I'm going to sit tight for now and see how I develop.
I'm sure you're aware of much of this, but bear with me. And I'll readily admit I'm coming at this from a position of theory vs. experience, as my time spent with pistol red dots is very limited.
The main benefit of the red dot is having that single focal plane. Put the dot on target and press the trigger. This is unlike the multiple focal planes of traditional iron sights (Pick up front sight, shift focus to rear sight to get alignment with front post, shift focus to the target to confirm overall sight alignment, shift focus back to the front site, press trigger).
If you put your optic between your BUIS, then you're essentially adding the potential for a fourth focal plane, the dot itself. If I'm focused on the target I want the dot to be the first thing I see as the gun comes up into focus on the presentation. If the sight is behind the optic, it can end up blocking the dot even if it's in the window. A pretty good presentation with the muzzle just slightly up can send you looking for the dot that you would otherwise see if the rear sight wasn't there. I worry that even if I know the dot is behind the sight, I will find myself focused on that rear sight waiting for the dot to clear it, rather than staying focused on the target. Or I'll assume it's behind the sight when it's not.
Yes, this can be trained around, and the draw stroke and presentation drills eventually can make this a moot point, but since I'm just starting out, I want my focus to be on learning the red dot as if the iron sites don't exist. I want to give myself every chance to be successful that I can. I don't want to get sucked into trying to use the irons to find the dot. I worry if I put the rear sight behind the dot then that's what's going to happen. With the back up sight in front of the optic, the dot will be the first thing I see provided I do my part to get a decent presentation.
I think I can see that as a potential issue. For me I don't even see my iron sights as I'm focused on the target and dot but I have heard that some people use their irons as a "guide" to find the dot. I am working on "backplate to nose" as Aaron explains it to help me get in alignment faster. But most of the time I'm just pushing the pistol out there. As I keep practicing, I get better but I'm still find myself hunting for the dot on that first shot out of the holster. But it's getting less as I practice.
Training
I just got a Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS last week and I am in the process of choosing an RDS. Then comes the adjustment period (not good timing with the scarcity of ammo so I'm sure LOTS of dry fire reps are in order). RDS are not easy to get right now, lots on backorder at the big retailers' web sites and I'm still undecided on which one to go with. Leaning toward the Holosun ACSS Vulcan.
