New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

[Amishman44]

And here's the link to the new "rule" submitted for publication.

Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached “Stabilizing Braces” | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

On January 13, 2023, the Attorney General signed ATF final rule 2021R-08F, “Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached ‘Stabilizing Braces,’” amending ATF’s regulations to clarify when a rifle is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. The final rule was published in the...

www.atf.gov

Question: If I have an AR 'pistol' with a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Shockwave Brace, if I re-build it with a 16" barrel and a regular 'stock', then there's no crying in the ATF?

Also, does this apply to all AR pistols, or just rifle-caliber pistols?
Meaning, if I have a 9mm PCC, that has a brace on it, is that still 'legal' on a PCC?

 

[Amishman44]

I gathered from one of the questions and subsequent responses that if you have filed before the end of the 120 days and have the submitted application to prove it, you're fine to have it in SBR configuration.

My biggest concern is not being on the ATF's 'list' of registered weapons in the first place.

 

[Amishman44]

Unless they change their minds...

...which seems to be their pattern of behavior.

 

[ed1838]

what if brace is removed and it has a mil spec tube?

 

[Indye41]

Question: If I have an AR 'pistol' with a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Shockwave Brace, if I re-build it with a 16" barrel and a regular 'stock', then there's no crying in the ATF?

Also, does this apply to all AR pistols, or just rifle-caliber pistols?
Meaning, if I have a 9mm PCC, that has a brace on it, is that still 'legal' on a PCC?

16” is legal regardless of what you put on the ass end. As far as I can tell.

Any braced firearm with a barrel length shorter the 16” will be considered a SBR if it can be shouldered, again from my understanding of what’s out.

 

[Indye41]

My biggest concern is not being on the ATF's 'list' of registered weapons in the first place.

Agreed. Most likely gonna sell my Noveske Space Invader now

 

[nonobaddog]

Question: If I have an AR 'pistol' with a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Shockwave Brace, if I re-build it with a 16" barrel and a regular 'stock', then there's no crying in the ATF?

Also, does this apply to all AR pistols, or just rifle-caliber pistols?
Meaning, if I have a 9mm PCC, that has a brace on it, is that still 'legal' on a PCC?

I have these same questions.
I am disappointed in the accuracy of my 10.5" 5.56mm so I am going to re-barrel that to 16".
I have an 8.5" 9mm which I guess I will re-barrel to 16" as well.

Do I need to destroy the shorter barrels or can I keep them around?

 

[ed1838]

16” is legal regardless of what you put on the ass end. As far as I can tell.

Any braced firearm with a barrel length shorter the 16” will be considered a SBR if it can be shouldered, again from my understanding of what’s out.

a person could shoulder a bare tube (or other rearward attachment)

 

[indykid]

I can see it now, that some time in the future AT and unconstitutional F decides to change it's mind. Like the agency has never done that before...

Disclaimer, not a letter from the real ATF!!!!!!!

Dear free SBR filler outer

We changed our mind and now require payment off the $200 blackmail fee, we mean federal tax. If you do not pay this fee, please look outside your home. See the 5 huge black vehicles? Do you like your windows and doors intact? Do you value your dog, love your spouse?

Very truly your worst nightmare,
ATF

Again the disclaimer, not a real letter!!!!!!

 

[Indye41]

a person could shoulder a bare tube (or other rearward attachment)

I agree. Seems dumb, but I’m sure they wrote the language that way on purpose with purpose. Get caught shouldering your buffer tube and away you go

 

[edwea]

My biggest concern is not being on the ATF's 'list' of registered weapons in the first place.

I get where you're coming from. I figure there is a hard registry lik the nfa stuff and a soft registry like 4473s, etc. We're all on the soft or shadow registry anyway. Might as well have the good stuff.

 

[Cameramonkey]

16” is legal regardless of what you put on the ass end. As far as I can tell.

Any braced firearm with a barrel length shorter the 16” will be considered a SBR if it can be shouldered, again from my understanding of what’s out.

As long as other factors like length of pull are also met.

 

[bobzilla]

No just no.

I get where you're coming from. I figure there is a hard registry lik the nfa stuff and a soft registry like 4473s, etc. We're all on the soft or shadow registry anyway. Might as well have the good stuff.

 

[barber613]

After registering the firearm (lower) what what stop you from then putting a legit stock on the newly minted SBR? Can it really be stamp free SBR’s for all, I doubt it? I know it is a registration scheme and all, just asking.

 

[nonobaddog]

I get where you're coming from. I figure there is a hard registry lik the nfa stuff and a soft registry like 4473s, etc. We're all on the soft or shadow registry anyway. Might as well have the good stuff.

I don't know what they have at all but to me a registry is a database and I know about databases. A single good relational database could handle everything they dream about and a lot more. No need for soft, hard, whatever.

 

[Tombs]

I'm not sure I really get this. I hear this sentiment a lot, so I give it some room in my head, but I don't get it.

Whether I fill out the form or not, they know I'm a gun owner. There are just tooooo many ways to put that together.

On pistol braces specifically, they could subpoena the major retailers (Midway, Brownell's, Bud's, etc.) and have a pretty good work list right there. They could easily identify those who purchased, but DIDN'T do a Form 1. That would make more sense for a hit list. If they need to get a warrant, or other CYA legal justification, "Here is the proof they bought this. Here is the proof they never got a stamp." is it. Doing the Form 1 REMOVES the justification for an unwelcome visit. If I'm wrong on this, I would like to learn why before I fill out the form.

Five years ago I didn't hear "If you get a License To Carry a Handgun, you're part of the problem". Requiring the license, including the background check, finger prints, notice to local LEO, fees, and being in a database was practically the exact same thing. However, no one was screaming that those who got the LTC were part of the problem. On the contrary, even some great INGO'ers would need to see an LTC to sell a shotgun.

I think there is ample and strong legal argument that both LTC and the NFA SBR are unconstitutional infringements. That's a related but different topic.

If, or when, we get to the point of gov't sweeping confiscations of firearms, we have a much bigger problem, and a different solution. This solution will be more justifiable and reasonable if the people and items they come after were in full compliance with the law when they were obtained.

I can appreciate your opinion "A", and have thought it often myself, but as I think through this, I just can't see how getting the stamp changes much ... beyond one more time I had to go along with something I thought was wrong, and comply with stupidity.

You need to get your brain in gear.

There's roughly 40 million 4473s filed per year for the past few years. NO government agency has the man power to pursue anything through those.

But for the special ed kids who decide to send legal proof of a felony crime directly to their door step, they most certainly have the man power to go after those people.

There are no legal guarantees that you won't be prosecuted for mailing them proof of a felony. This is not a law, this is a rule change. This can also be changed at any time by them. They may tell you today that they'll give you amnesty, and after your paper work goes through, change their mind and order for the confiscation/destruction of the firearm, or even decide to hit you with charges.

This is why you should not comply with a rule change.

In the past, things like this were handled by passing a law, and the law included legal protections. You have no legal protections in this instance.

 

[Tombs]

I get where you're coming from. I figure there is a hard registry lik the nfa stuff and a soft registry like 4473s, etc. We're all on the soft or shadow registry anyway. Might as well have the good stuff.

Once again, no government agency has the man power to do much with 4473s outside of trying to find a 4473 attached to an individual, and getting very lucky.

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

Lots of pistols for sale in the local classifieds...

 

[renauldo]

FROM ANOTHER FORUM: A member there tried to register his braced pistol. He fired off an email to the ATF to register the gun and they emailed him back with a demand for his fingerprints. Is that the way it goes?? Not anyone I know.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

FROM ANOTHER FORUM: A member there tried to register his braced pistol. He fired off an email to the ATF to register the gun and they emailed him back with a demand for his fingerprints. Is that the way it goes?? Not anyone I know.

There is a process to go through. Sending an email is not that process.