New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

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  • tackdriver

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    No publish, no exemption, but no publish also means no SBR. The previous holding that braced pistols are still just pistols remains in force.
    Ah... but there is the catch! The way I understand the language, if a person proceeds to file an eForm 1, and take door number 2 for the exemption and tax exempt stamp - they are stating that they currently possess a SBR as defined by the NFA.

    Not a pistol with a brace. Not a weapon that you innocently believe is a non-NFA item. They are specifically stating that they knowingly are in possession of a regulated firearm that is not registered. Here's the language again:

    "... 1) equipped with a stabilizing brace; 2) meet the definition of "rifle" under federal law; and 3) have a barrel or barrels less than sixteen (16) inches in length. By proceeding with this application, you are certifying that you and the firearm you intend to register meet the tax-exempt parameters set forth in ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F." ATF's eForms website (my bold emphasis)

    I believe that "certifying" is a legal term that is, in effect, the same as an affidavit. They are officially stating that they believe they possess a rifle with a barrel less than 16" - not a pistol with a brace. This clarifies that it is intended to be fired from the shoulder.

    If we presume bad intent by the ATF: This is a perfect set-up to avoid any defense related to STAPLES v. UNITED STATES. In that case, the defendant believed the weapon was a normal rifle (common definition), not the NFA machinegun the ATF determined it to be. He believed that possessing it was innocent. SCOTUS agreed.

    Here however, a person must certify that they understand the item to be a SBR by definition. I haven't gone trough all of them, but I don't think any of the ATF's prior letters, opinions, or statements, lets a person off the hook if they believe the weapon is a rifle (intended to fire from the shoulder) with a short barrel. If I'm wrong, I really, really, really would like to know.

    Again, this only really matters if you presume that this is the 'trap' that many are screaming it is. Maybe the ATF just wants to do the right thing. If so, they could ease a lot of concerns by simply changing the language to efile to something like "1.) possess a pistol with a brace attached; 2.) which may be classified as a SBR by this rule; and 3.) you wish to avoid any innocent violation in the future" then you get to proceed with the exempt Form 1. The fact that they agonized over this for a long time, and the language is what it is, does not put me at ease.

    It's a big gamble. I'm just trying to understand it before I throw the dice or walk away.
     

    Beowulf

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    Realistically they should just cancel the barrel length/shoulder stock stuff. Most of that was put into the 34 firearms act by ignorant congressional staffs wanting to include "gangster weapons".

    Even worse, it was put in because the NFA was originally conceived to include all handguns. The language about SBRs and SBSs was to make sure people couldn't get around the pistol restriction by cutting down rifles and shotguns.

    The pistol part never made it in the final draft, but they left the restrictions on rifles and shotguns.
     

    xwing

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    And then there is this change that will effect us if we have to register Braced pistols.



    I assume they are talking about implementation of
    26 U.S. Code § 5861(d)
    It shall be unlawful for any person
    (d)to receive or possess a firearm which is not registered to him in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record

    In the statute (and the related definitions), "possess" is not defined. However, it would be quite a stretch to argue that it includes "Constructive Possession".

    The ATF does not make law, and there have been no recent changes at all to the underlying statutes. It sounds like in the FAQ that they are changing their official interpretation of that statute above and redefining "possess" differently than they have historically done. If so, it's a huge problem. Violation of the above statue is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. If they plan to prosecute with their "new" definition of the underlying terms, that will ruin many people's lives. It would be good to understand if that is the case.
     
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    bobzilla

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    I assume they are talking about implementation of
    26 U.S. Code § 5861(d)
    It shall be unlawful for any person
    (d)to receive or possess a firearm which is not registered to him in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record

    In the statute (and the related definitions), "possess" is not defined. However, it would be quite a stretch to argue that it includes "Constructive Possession".
    The ATF does not make law, and there have been no recent changes at all to the underlying statutes. It sounds like in the FAQ that they are changing their official interpretation of that statute above and redefining "possess" differently than they have historically done. If so, it's a huge problem. Violation of the above statue is a felony with up to 10 years in prison. If they plan to prosecute with their "new" definition of the underlying terms, that will ruin many people's lives. It would be good to understand if that is the case.
    But many here say that thinking like this is just fake fear mongering and the aft would never do that
     

    foszoe

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    This should be pushed the other way, and SBRs should be defined out of existence so that there is no distinctions based on barrel length, etc.

    This kind of reminds me of the old definition of porn. "I know it when I see it".
     

    MikeDVB

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    [Re: NFA Possession in the presence of the registered owner].

    That is incorrect statement of the law and inconsistent w/ past ATF guidance. ATF cannot regulate or enact rules/regs by FAQs
    Not sure why this thread was merged back in to the brace thread when it wasn't about braces but alas, here we are.
     

    tackdriver

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    You mean you can’t understand all of the 293 pages of the ATF memo?
    Not the memo. Not the website. Not the dog-and-poney for the press. Certainly not what their reasoning is for any of it.

    Fits in nicely with just about everything else the gov't is doing these days! :)
     

    d.kaufman

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    [Re: NFA Possession in the presence of the registered owner].


    Not sure why this thread was merged back in to the brace thread when it wasn't about braces but alas, here we are.

    It was merged because the op wanted to keep referring to posts and links in this thread.

    Either way it's all lumped into this new "rule" so it's all being talked about in here.
     

    MikeDVB

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    It was merged because the op wanted to keep referring to posts and links in this thread.

    Either way it's all lumped into this new "rule" so it's all being talked about in here.
    The ATF making a mistake in their FAQ isn't a new rule and has nothing to do with braces.

    I came to INGO to make a new thread on the issue when I found the FAQ issue but one already existed so I replied to it. I would never have replied to the Brace thread about the FAQ issue because while they are distantly related [both dealing with the ATF] they are not directly related.

    At any rate what is done is done.

    The FAQ change about possession was a mistake that is being corrected so it doesn't matter much either way at this point.
     

    d.kaufman

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    The ATF making a mistake in their FAQ isn't a new rule and has nothing to do with braces.

    I came to INGO to make a new thread on the issue when I found the FAQ issue but one already existed so I replied to it. I would never have replied to the Brace thread about the FAQ issue because while they are distantly related [both dealing with the ATF] they are not directly related.

    At any rate what is done is done.

    The FAQ change about possession was a mistake that is being corrected so it doesn't matter much either way at this point.
    You have the option to follow this thread. To much clutter all dealing with what's legal and what's not referring to ATFs proposed ruling, that is what brought these questions about. 1 thread is sufficient for now

    And for good measure if you want to start a new thread on something similar being discussed, don't be lazy and refer to postings In another thread. Put the links in the thread and don't say see/read post 538 in another thread
     

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