Need practice tips and exercises for a more steady/stable aim

[Firehawk]

I shot my 1911 with a Holosun micro red dot today. My first time shooting it with the red dot since I installed it. I was surprised to find how much the red dot showed me how much I’m shaking aiming at the target. I never noticed it with the iron sights, but the small red dot made it very apparent.

What are some ways I can improve my stability and practice tips to create a more steady aim?
Thanks.

 

[Dean C.]

An easy favorite of mine, put a piece of 45 brass in top of the red dot when you have the pistol extended and pull the trigger. The goal is for the casing to not move , sounds easy but hard in actual practice.

This was definitely a phenomenon I experienced when moving to RDS on handguns , that small dot sure does move an awful lot.

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Dryfire Targets & Dry-Fire Book Combo Pack

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I recommend both the targets and book

 

[cedartop]

I shot my 1911 with a Holosun micro red dot today. My first time shooting it with the red dot since I installed it. I was surprised to find how much the red dot showed me how much I’m shaking aiming at the target. I never noticed it with the iron sights, but the small red dot made it very apparent.

What are some ways I can improve my stability and practice tips to create a more steady aim?
Thanks.

The way I read your question is that you now notice you shake or move when you are holding the gun, not when you are pressing the trigger. (Maybe you do both though, I do.) For the first there may not be much you can do about it except ignore it. Some people move/shake more than others. Of course if you are doing it right you will be looking at the target and not the dot. If it wasn't enough to affect your accuracy with irons, it won't affect it with a dot. That is one reason some people prefer a larger MOA dot, it doesn't show the movement as much. You could of course experiment with your grip and see if that helps. If it is the second, that is movement when the shot breaks, all of the same drills that help with the irons will help with the dot.

 

[Firehawk]

The way I read your question is that you now notice you shake or move when you are holding the gun, not when you are pressing the trigger. (Maybe you do both though, I do.) For the first there may not be much you can do about it except ignore it. Some people move/shake more than others. Of course if you are doing it right you will be looking at the target and not the dot. If it wasn't enough to affect your accuracy with irons, it won't affect it with a dot. That is one reason some people prefer a larger MOA dot, it doesn't show the movement as much. You could of course experiment with your grip and see if that helps. If it is the second, that is movement when the shot breaks, all of the same drills that help with the irons will help with the dot.

You read correctly. I now notice how much I shake holding the gun, not pressing the trigger. I do sometimes flinch on trigger press (working on that) and I usually notice when I do. I’m talking about holding the gun and aiming. The Holosun does have a small dot.

 

[MCgrease08]

It's all part of the learning curve. The movement is exaggerated by the red dot. With enough reps you will begin to spot a pattern of movement. Trust that when you have an acceptable sight picture you can press the trigger. You don't have to eliminate all movement.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What's the target look like?

 

[Sitcomdad83]

For me my stance needed to improve I was so focused on trigger control etc that after my 1st shot everything after was off.

 

[cbhausen]

I got the Mantis X10 Elite recently and this thing is amazing. Basically a super-sensitive motion detector installed on a firearm for live or dry for practice. There’s a dedicated thread here on INGO for it but here’s a screen capture of 1/5 second before trigger press (blue trace), during trigger press (yellow trace) and after trigger press (red trace). This trace is from dry fire practice; the red portion of the trace measures control during the recoil phase of the shot during live fire.

The shot is scored 0-100 based on the steadiness aim about what the Mantis hardware perceives as the intended target (center of trace). I’ve noticed I’m getting steadier the more I practice and being well-rested and not jacked up on caffeine makes a real difference.

Also, physical conditioning (being in good shape) is said to improve steadiness of aim as well and I believe it. I’ve also heard there may be a psychological component to this (the Zen-like trance Bullseye shooters speak of). Can’t say I’ve ever experienced that and N/A to my purposes of self-defense proficiency anyway. Maybe someone else can speak to that.

Anyway, not to sound like a shill for Mantis but the thing even captures traces for holster draw and recoil management analysis, pretty amazing stuff.

 

[Trapper Jim]

There is always movement in the gun. I suggest reading and understanding this book. Amazon product ASIN B003XSZW2C

Many of todays shooters that have taken it up and bypassed mastering Precision shooting before field course shooting have and always retain this problem.

Follow Bullsye shooting tips
And learn to master the shot. Dot, scope or irons or fixed sight revolvers demand the same principles. The sight does not stop moving but know how and when to release the shot as the sight moves is the key.

See you on the range

Trapper

 

[JTL165]

You'll find with more dot shooting the movement will decrease and you will notice it less.
Focus on the target not the dot. This will help
If target shooting don't forget natural point of aim (not just for rifle shooting!) Muscular input will result in more shaking. Not much help for defensive shooting but will work great for b8 shooting at distance.

 

[Firehawk]

Muscular input will result in more shaking.

Probably part of my problem. I clamp my grip down on the 1911 pretty hard.

 

[JTL165]

Probably part of my problem. I clamp my grip down on the 1911 pretty hard.

Solid grip is good. Take the stress out of the Shoulders, back, and core and check aimpoint. Adjust feet accordingly and see how that works out

 

[Kirk Freeman]

For the brief time that I shot competitively in undergrad I used an exercise that I read about in Sheehan's "Bright, Shining Lie"

I put a golf pencil in one of my Colt 1911s and dry fired into a circle that I drew tracing an Ike dollar on a cinder block wall.

There are many empty air exercises for the hands and forearms from CMA. I would start on those as well. And maybe take up piano.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is always movement in the gun.

This. Which is why I asked what the target looked like. Movement of the gun in and of itself isn't an issue if the target looks good.

When I started using a dot, I found the dot to look a lot more unstable if I stared at it instead of using a dot like you're supposed to use a dot...target focused.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This. Which is why I asked what the target looked like. Movement of the gun in and of itself isn't an issue if the target looks good.

When I started using a dot, I found the dot to look a lot more unstable if I stared at it instead of using a dot like you're supposed to use a dot...target focused.

Cirillo had a video on this, yes?

 

[NHT3]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Cirillo had a video on this, yes?

No idea.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

No idea.

He is shooting upside down and the sight picture is jumping about yet he still nails to the black to demonstrate how the motion of the ocean does not matter.

 

[Twangbanger]

Simple Answer First: if you were happy with your groups before you put the dot on, you don't have an intrinsic shooting problem. You have an adjustment to the dot problem. Trying to settle the gun down and "make it still" is the wrong mindset.

You have to learn to tolerate movement and shoot with a moving dot.

You cure this by shooting a blank paper with no central aiming point. Just focus on getting off clean trigger presses, without regard to where the dot is, or where the shot lands. Don't make a heroic effort to settle the dot down. Perform your usual shot routine, and as long as the dot is within the confines of the paper, you keep pressing until the shot goes.

This is what archers call "blank bale shooting." It reduces the "target panic," and lets you focus on just getting off good shot releases without regard to where the dot is in relation to the "target."

You will be surprised to find that although the dot movement seems large, your continued aiming attention tends to group the shots to the center, and your groups will be much smaller than your apparent "wobble zone." This is purely a therapeutic aid, and when you begin to gain confidence and make progress, the target reference point can be re-introduced.

The Complicated Answer: I am not sure what your goals are, so will be kind of general, but since you mentioned this is only based on one range session, I'm guessing you mean that shooting with the dot doesn't seem to go as smoothly as with iron sights, because the irons "conceal" a lot of movement you didn't know you had, and the dot making it apparent is freaking you out. And/or, you're getting "mystery shots" you didn't get before.

There are two potential problems: 1) your "wobble zone" being too large, which is the area the dot traces while you're settled down and trying to get off a shot, and 2) potential errors introduced by your perception of the dot, causing you to do crazy sxxt at the moment the shot goes off, not being able to pull the trigger, etc. leading to holes in the paper you can't explain.

For Problem 1, Physiology and sports medicine for precision rifle and pistol shooters seem to indicate significantly decreasing your wobble zone is a long-term project, and many people never make much progress on it. At least, not without putting in the level of training an Olympic level shooter invests, which is where the type of laser-trainer shown above originated. That device is interesting, but it's really too much information for the average shooter to do anything with.

What the average person _can_ do something about, is the "type 2" problem, which is that reaction to the movement of the dot is causing you to do crazy things. I experienced this problem the first year I put a scope on my bullseye pistol. I couldn't get the trigger to go off. I was trying to "pick off" a shot as the dot crossed the ten ring, instead of tolerating some "wobble" and just squeezing away.

Using the blank target is the cure for this.

 

[Firehawk]

Simple Answer First: if you were happy with your groups before you put the dot on, you don't have an intrinsic shooting problem. You have an adjustment to the dot problem. Trying to settle the gun down and "make it still" is the wrong mindset.

You have to learn to tolerate movement and shoot with a moving dot.

You cure this by shooting a blank paper with no central aiming point. Just focus on getting off clean trigger presses, without regard to where the dot is, or where the shot lands. Don't make a heroic effort to settle the dot down. Perform your usual shot routine, and as long as the dot is within the confines of the paper, you keep pressing until the shot goes.

This is what archers call "blank bale shooting." It reduces the "target panic," and lets you focus on just getting off good shot releases without regard to where the dot is in relation to the "target."

You will be surprised to find that although the dot movement seems large, your continued aiming attention tends to group the shots to the center, and your groups will be much smaller than your apparent "wobble zone." This is purely a therapeutic aid, and when you begin to gain confidence and make progress, the target reference point can be re-introduced.

The Complicated Answer: I am not sure what your goals are, so will be kind of general, but since you mentioned this is only based on one range session, I'm guessing you mean that shooting with the dot doesn't seem to go as smoothly as with iron sights, because the irons "conceal" a lot of movement you didn't know you had, and the dot making it apparent is freaking you out. And/or, you're getting "mystery shots" you didn't get before.

There are two potential problems: 1) your "wobble zone" being too large, which is the area the dot traces while you're settled down and trying to get off a shot, and 2) potential errors introduced by your perception of the dot, causing you to do crazy sxxt at the moment the shot goes off, not being able to pull the trigger, etc. leading to holes in the paper you can't explain.

For Problem 1, Physiology and sports medicine for precision rifle and pistol shooters seem to indicate significantly decreasing your wobble zone is a long-term project, and many people never make much progress on it. At least, not without putting in the level of training an Olympic level shooter invests, which is where the type of laser-trainer shown above originated. That device is interesting, but it's really too much information for the average shooter to do anything with.

What the average person _can_ do something about, is the "type 2" problem, which is that reaction to the movement of the dot is causing you to do crazy things. I experienced this problem the first year I put a scope on my bullseye pistol. I couldn't get the trigger to go off. I was trying to "pick off" a shot as the dot crossed the ten ring, instead of tolerating some "wobble" and just squeezing away.

Using the blank target is the cure for this.

Thank you Twangbanger for all that. And thanks to everyone else for their tips. My groups with the dot we’re similar to when I shot irons. But you’re right, the iron sights concealed the “wobble” and when I switched to the dot I was surprised how much wobble there was that I never noticed before. I took some tips here on relaxing my shoulders, changing my stance, and not muscling the gun into submission. Just from dry fire exercises at paper on the wall I can already tell a difference. I need to build up strength and stamina so my form doesn’t suffer fatigue so quickly. I also need to learn to focus on the target and not the dot. That’s a hard concept for me to understand, since I see both the dot and the target. I’m sure I’m overthinking it. I’ll also try the blank paper exercises that you mentioned. I already devote a large part of my limited gun time to trigger training, mostly dry fire exercises. Thank you for the advice.