"My 5 Shot Snubby is Good Enough"

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  • DadSmith

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    I mean from what I hear he might as well carry a flintlock cause he's gonna die.

    edit: does carrying a flintlock also apply as carrying a rock? That would be two birds with one..... stone.
    @Leadeye what did these shoot? Big ball of lead? Or buckshot? Or the kitchen sink?
    I'd be concerned about a man pointing these at me.
    1674263338867.png
     
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    DadSmith

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    Not Leadeye, but yes. The lead ball was roughly the ballistics of a modern 12g slug from the same barrel length. They were not typically used with shot, but could be. The funnel shape of the barrel was to make pouring powder easier.
    I'd like to see some of these old firearms made with modern steel, and make replicas of these old guns to shoot and have fun with.
    Including the Blunderbuss.

    They would be crime stoppers on impact.
    12ga sized solid lead ball that's going to do some penetration and no need for expansion.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Huh. I learned something new today

    If you want a real expert, talk to @indiucky . I'm just a dude who's listened to him a lot and been to umpteen bazillion weapons/military museums around the US and Europe. They've got lots of fancy flintlocks and matchlocks that are both functional weapons and true works of art. Somewhere I have a picture of this ridiculously large double barrel (.65 caliber, maybe?) that has lizard statues as the sights. It it definitely something to see.
     

    Leadeye

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    .
    I mean from what I hear he might as well carry a flintlock cause he's gonna die.

    edit: does carrying a flintlock also apply as carrying a rock? That would be two birds with one..... stone.

    This one spits a 50 caliber ball, probably hurt more than a rock. ;)

    pocketflint.jpg
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Where did I say that I'd rather have no firearm than a 5 shot 357? (Which is just a hot .38, for those who understand short barrel ballistic limitations)
    And a 9mm parabellum is just a hot .380 acp. And a .327 magnum is just a hot .32 acp. If I had to choose, all else being equal which do you think I'd carry? Heck I'd probably carry a 5 shot .327 revolver vs a 10 shot .32acp pistol.
    Eli at the mall wasn’t a cop.
    And from what I understand the fight was pretty much over within the first 4 rounds fired. One of which was a neck shot. The rest were just gravy. So... Without seeing the autopsy report I'm going to go out on a limb and say the first 4 or 5 shots in this scenario would have done the job in about the same amount of time. If you have evidence to the contrary I would sincerely be interested in seeing it.
    But DA revolvers are certainly circa late 1800’s technology. Slicked up in the case of the LCR, sure. But hardly nonsense.
    And semi-auto pistols are circa late 1800's technology. Slicked up in the case of most modern pistols, sure. So what's your point?
     

    bobzilla

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    Brownswhitanon.
    And from what I understand the fight was pretty much over within the first 4 rounds fired. One of which was a neck shot. The rest were just gravy.
    According to sone that would make him an executioner/murderer.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    According to sone that would make him an executioner/murderer.

    Very context dependent.

    Pawn shop robbery. Customer intervention. Very first shot clips the bottom of bad guy's magazine (dumping his rounds), bullet continues into torso, severs several significant blood vessels, and compromises the spine. Bad guy drops and is, by any reasonable measure, no longer a threat. Customer continues to fire many more rounds.

    BUT his view was obstructed by shelves of merchandise, the bad guy still had the gun, and there was no way that given the view available the intervening shooter could reasonably be expected to know both the gun and robber were out of commission.

    Each shot is it's own action, and each shot must have it's own legally justifiable reason. Eli was fine, given the distances, the confusion of people running and sometimes obscuring his vision, the actions of the shooter, and the time frame. Trying to draw some parallel to that and a completely different context is not really relevant.
     

    bobzilla

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    Brownswhitanon.
    Very context dependent.

    Pawn shop robbery. Customer intervention. Very first shot clips the bottom of bad guy's magazine (dumping his rounds), bullet continues into torso, severs several significant blood vessels, and compromises the spine. Bad guy drops and is, by any reasonable measure, no longer a threat. Customer continues to fire many more rounds.

    BUT his view was obstructed by shelves of merchandise, the bad guy still had the gun, and there was no way that given the view available the intervening shooter could reasonably be expected to know both the gun and robber were out of commission.

    Each shot is it's own action, and each shot must have it's own legally justifiable reason. Eli was fine, given the distances, the confusion of people running and sometimes obscuring his vision, the actions of the shooter, and the time frame. Trying to draw some parallel to that and a completely different context is not really relevant.
    Damnit Denny Jr. stop. Jeesh.... can't have any fun anymore.
     
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    central indiana
    Each shot is it's own action
    I'm glad this has been pointed out to me. I don't think I've ever considered it that way. It seems natural to think of a shooting incident as an "event". One shot, ten shots, it was a shooting event in my mind. Now, knowing that each and every shot is its own event/action/decision, I feel I might need to consider scenarios differently than I may have previously. Both when I read and hear of them as well as how I might react if confronted with a possible "event".
     

    Route 45

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    Indy
    And a 9mm parabellum is just a hot .380 acp. And a .327 magnum is just a hot .32 acp. If I had to choose, all else being equal which do you think I'd carry? Heck I'd probably carry a 5 shot .327 revolver vs a 10 shot .32acp pistol.
    Context. Lots of people who carry 357 snubs think that they are getting the legendary 357 performance. They are not. The 357 Magnum's reputation (deserved or not) comes from revolvers with barrels long enough to adequately burn the powders commonly used in the caliber, giving it the velocity/energy that gives it the reputation. Which is why I made the comment about 357 snubs. 32 ACP and 9mm have nothing to do with it, they have no such reputation and are not typically fired from 1.78" barrels to achieve a similar level of neutering.

    And from what I understand the fight was pretty much over within the first 4 rounds fired. One of which was a neck shot. The rest were just gravy. So... Without seeing the autopsy report I'm going to go out on a limb and say the first 4 or 5 shots in this scenario would have done the job in about the same amount of time. If you have evidence to the contrary I would sincerely be interested in seeing it.
    I was responding to TacticallyFat's post about not being a cop and not doing cop things. I'd like to borrow his crystal ball, because nobody knows what defensive situation they may find themselves in. Lies, damned lies and statistics aside, there's no harm in being overprepared.

    Also, I would say that I'd be interested in seeing your evidence of the mall encounter being over within the first 4 or 5 shots, but that means I'd have to see where the evidence came from, and I have no interest in that, as I'm not your proctologist. :): Pro tip: The one presenting unsubstantiated theories has the burden to provide evidence.

    So if you knew that you'd be in Eli's shoes tomorrow, you'd still pick the 5 shot snubby? Yeah...me neither.

    And semi-auto pistols are circa late 1800's technology. Slicked up in the case of most modern pistols, sure. So what's your point?
    Really? Didn't see any Browning tilt-barrel semiautos in your article, which is the operating system for the vast majority of modern defensive semiauto pistols today. Carry a Broomhandle, do ya? :)
     

    Hapea2serv

    Plinker
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    Jan 1, 2023
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    Angola
    To start, Idgaf what you carry, unless you edc a rock in aiwb...

    How much of carrying a guns is pure enjoyment of that gun?

    What ratio of the decision is objective vs, subjective reasons.

    Seems like 1911 guys will be more likely to carry a 1911.

    Wheel gun guys will carry snubbys

    High speed tactical guys will carry the hottest gun on the market.

    The old timer guns guys will often carry something like the p365 series or whatever.

    But I have not seen many of the glock or whatever fan boys carry a 1911 or revolver...
    If im going to carry my gun, I want to shoot it for fun when i have opportunity. I hope i never have another threat, but if i do, i hope i can repell it with my pocket gun. My threat is stray dogs and coyotes. They usually flee with a warning, but one pitbull didn’t. I fired 19 shots but only one into the dog. I did not get it down. I regretted that. It did flee. Pit bulls are tough!
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Context. Lots of people who carry 357 snubs think that they are getting the legendary 357 performance. They are not. The 357 Magnum's reputation (deserved or not) comes from revolvers with barrels long enough to adequately burn the powders commonly used in the caliber, giving it the velocity/energy that gives it the reputation. Which is why I made the comment about 357 snubs.

    Numbers wise and tissue destruction wise, .357 magnum shouldn't really have the results it does. I may have already posted this, but I think the sheer "blastiness" of the cartridge and the resulting shock contribute to it's real world results more than just the ballistics of it. I've had the theory for awhile, but it is just a theory as how do you actually test it? People are lining up to get shot with a .357 magnum and then a 9mm and report how much each sucked independently. I do note some others have independently arrived at the same theory, such as Darryl Bolke who knows a thing or two about revolvers and face shooting. I've long argued that the ballistics from a short barrel favor .38+P over .357 magnum, but the blast effect is not nothing, IMO. Blastiness works in both directions, and I carry .38+P. I don't even like shooting full house magnums at an indoor range any longer, regardless of barrel length. Fun outdoors. Fun woods gun. Just not for me inside.

    Also, I would say that I'd be interested in seeing your evidence of the mall encounter being over within the first 4 or 5 shots, but that means I'd have to see where the evidence came from, and I have no interest in that

    I was at that scene and would say the information is correct based on all available evidence I was privy to.

    So if you knew that you'd be in Eli's shoes tomorrow, you'd still pick the 5 shot snubby? Yeah...me neither.
    :)

    I would not. If I knew the exact scenario and the distances involved, I think my P220 if I'm relegated to irons. Dots, meh, whatever.
     
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