"My 5 Shot Snubby is Good Enough"

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  • tackdriver

    Sharpshooter
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    Apr 20, 2010
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    Knives are even older technology. Is that relevant in a deadly force encounter? That's the nonsense part.
    Great point!

    I'm guessing this doesn't apply to an LE officer on duty, but for the rest of us - particularly those who know how to use old technology - a knife may have been preferable in the situation of the video. For some, having a pistol in the right hand would have been a distraction and a liability, a limit to options at least.

    Imagine the scene if the defender had a modicum of ablity and a good knife in his hand. For that matter, a fair amount of skill and nothing in his hand.
     

    BE Mike

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    Jul 23, 2008
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    New Albany
    Great point!

    I'm guessing this doesn't apply to an LE officer on duty, but for the rest of us - particularly those who know how to use old technology - a knife may have been preferable in the situation of the video. For some, having a pistol in the right hand would have been a distraction and a liability, a limit to options at least.

    Imagine the scene if the defender had a modicum of ablity and a good knife in his hand. For that matter, a fair amount of skill and nothing in his hand.
    I know little about the deployment of a knife, except at the end of a rifle barrel that the Army taught. I would guess that successful deployment of a knife would require a great amount of skill, physical strength and physical endurance. If I'm right, that would leave that option out for most folks. If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear the opinions of those who possess these qualities.
     

    ed1838

    Master
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    23   0   0
    Feb 20, 2022
    1,827
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    Seymour
    Just by them seeing I had a firearm has stoped 2 unknown of what would have went for me. I was open carry and all I did was pull my jacket back. Was enough that they backed away one time it was just one guy on drugs or nuts. I had yelled to stay the F*** BACK! He truned around after I pull jacket back and reached for it. Did not have to draw. Other time I was going to buy a used truck off craigslist it was in Indy they had said several times to bring cash. When I got there truck was moved in back inside a privancy fence. No way was I going back there. When they saw I was armed said truck was sold.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Oct 3, 2012
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    I know little about the deployment of a knife, except at the end of a rifle barrel that the Army taught. I would guess that successful deployment of a knife would require a great amount of skill, physical strength and physical endurance. If I'm right, that would leave that option out for most folks. If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear the opinions of those who possess these qualities.

    A lot depends on the blade, but, it's certainly a viable option for many and doesn't require a ton of training or physical ability. Certainly less than unarmed. I've done a modicum of training with and against and know it's a MFer to defend against without shooting.

    More when I'm on a real keyboard.
     

    tackdriver

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    ... it's a MFer to defend against without shooting.

    More when I'm on a real keyboard.
    ^^^ What he said.

    Now, if it's a "MFer to defend against without shooting", and your attacker has a dry tree branch in his hand, what does that tell you?

    The biggest difference I think, is mindset. With a gun, most think "shoot to kill". With a blade, it's better to think "neutralize the threat" The body doesn't work right when muscle and connective tissues are severed. Hard to hit with a stick if he can't hold it, or lift his arm (or breath). It's a different, but very effective, mindset. It takes a little training, but so does effective employment of a handgun.

    On a related note: I've seen a few MP's and British "Bobbies" that are down right scarry with a "nightstick" if you know what your looking at. I imagine the guy in the video approaching one of them - and chuckle. Elbow, knee, wrist, noggin, cuffs, lunch. (that does take some training and practice though)
     

    tackdriver

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    Apr 20, 2010
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    I know little about the deployment of a knife, except at the end of a rifle barrel that the Army taught. I would guess that successful deployment of a knife would require a great amount of skill, physical strength and physical endurance. If I'm right, that would leave that option out for most folks. If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear the opinions of those who possess these qualities.
    I'm not an "expert' by any stretch, but have some background. It's not really that much different than taking firearm focused self defense seriously. Sure, physical attributes like speed and coordination are an important component - but they are with a handgun as well.

    If you're serious, you train to get that 5-rnd snubby out of your jacket pocket, or the Glock 17 out of your waistband. If you can train to get your clothes out of the way, clear your IWB holster, and get on target, you can train to deploy a blade. If you've got the coordination to put groups into a circle, you can probably get a blade onto a wrist.

    It's very different, but not nessesarily more difficult. The real problem for most is distance. You have to be close, manage the space, and think quick. However, I suspect this is an area where most people who CC lack training and practice as well.

    I'm not saying that a blade is "better". It is useless if you add distance or utilize cover/obsticles. Those are both great ideas. If you can stop the guy with a stick, knife, etc. before he gets inside the zone, all the better. That's where the handgun excels. I do understand the blade enough to know I'd really rather not get close enough that the bad guy/gal can touch me with it.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
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    Columbus, OH
    Great point!

    I'm guessing this doesn't apply to an LE officer on duty, but for the rest of us - particularly those who know how to use old technology - a knife may have been preferable in the situation of the video. For some, having a pistol in the right hand would have been a distraction and a liability, a limit to options at least.

    Imagine the scene if the defender had a modicum of ablity and a good knife in his hand. For that matter, a fair amount of skill and nothing in his hand.
    Depending on the nature of the 'stick' and their chosen art, there is no shortage of people who can beat you senseless with a 'stick' and never break a sweat

    If you see someone holding two sticks in a way that looks like they know what they're for, I would strongly advise not pressing an encounter with a knife or indeed getting anywhere near them
     

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    tackdriver

    Sharpshooter
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    3   0   0
    Apr 20, 2010
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    Depending on the nature of the 'stick' and their chosen art, there is no shortage of people who can beat you senseless with a 'stick' and never break a sweat

    If you see someone holding two sticks in a way that looks like they know what they're for, I would strongly advise not pressing an encounter with a knife or indeed getting anywhere near them
    I could not agree more.

    And to the topic of the thread: THIS is why distance, obstacles, and as many rounds as I can stuff in the mag, make sense!

    Fortunately, I've never had to face such a person (or a group of them) off the mat or in the street, and don't think it's likely I will around these parts. If I did, that whole 'drum magazine for a pistol' thing might start looking a lot less silly.
     
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2022
    42
    18
    Columbia City, IN
    A 5 shot gun will work. Unless it doesn’t.

    Why carry a higher capacity? You can always not shoot all the bullets. You can never make the liw capacity gun grow more.

    Why carry a low capacity? Context doesn’t allow anything else. (Although the sig 365 kinda obsoletes a j-frame these days for most contexts)

    If I could, I’d carry a 12G. But it’s impractical. The size and capacity has to work inside your own context. In an ideal world: more is always better.
     

    model1994

    quick draw mcgraw
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    8   0   0
    Aug 17, 2022
    790
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    glacial boundary
    There's always a dissenting opinion on your style of carry. That's why I'm objectively ridiculous and save the debating for other topics. I carry a 5 shot 38 (S&W 649) because it's aesthetically beautiful. That's really all there is to it. My LCP is ugly. My Glock is ugly. Magazines are ugly. Sometimes I carry a 3" model 13 because, yep, it's nickel & very beautiful.

    If I'm going to defend myself, I'm doing it in style. If my revolver isn't enough and it's my time, I'm dyin' in style.

    You can say what you want about how I carry, but you can't say it's ugly. :thatshot:
     

    Route 45

    Grandmaster
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    92   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
    14,884
    113
    Indy
    Well, this has certainly been interesting. Someone's opinion is that 100+ year old technology will get you DAF because 0ther 100+ year old technology is better. And some people disagree. Who'da thunk it! And on INGO, no less.
    Which 10+1 or greater capacity semiauto with modern sight options (night sights, fiber optic) in the same size and weight class as J-frame size revolvers existed 100 years ago? The reference to outdated technology is more about the capacity and less about the operating system. More rounds = more chances to not be DAF, if your situation calls for it. Really not hard to understand.
     

    foszoe

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Jun 2, 2011
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    wait isn’t that just 9 rounds of .45? That’s not going to be enough. You’ll die man! Like worse than the metal death tube deaths.
    I think he'd be okay against 1 assailant but 2? He better have a backup snubby to get him to 15rds
     

    foszoe

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Jun 2, 2011
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    When i started carrying it was late 1980s. I carried my 92fs with 2 full spare mags in a jackass shoulder rig. Over the years with a waistline that has varied from 28 to 44, I have carried mostly shoulder holster through 90s. Switched to safariland owb or comptec iwb. When carrying on hip, I feel my draw is much quicker but I never figured out a way to carry spare mags comfortably.

    Throughout the years, I always stayed with 9mm because I had more rounds. I figured a 9mm was like a 35 with a spare mag.
     

    Hawkeye

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jul 25, 2010
    5,409
    113
    Warsaw
    Which 10+1 or greater capacity semiauto with modern sight options (night sights, fiber optic) in the same size and weight class as J-frame size revolvers existed 100 years ago? The reference to outdated technology is more about the capacity and less about the operating system. More rounds = more chances to not be DAF, if your situation calls for it. Really not hard to understand.
    DAF
     

    BigMoose

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Apr 14, 2012
    5,103
    149
    Indianapolis
    Bah, I will carry what I want.. Won't have people on the Internet telling me what I can or can't carry. Especially after last years frantic email campaign to fight for our right to have constitutional carry.

    So today, I put the Beretta mouse gun away, and this week only I am carrying my classic M1917 Colt in 45 ACP with moon clips.

    Wait.. does having extra moon clips and 6 shots give me an advantage. Maybe, but its the closest thing I have to a 5 shot snubby.
     

    Mij

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    May 22, 2022
    5,883
    113
    In the corn and beans
    Bah, I will carry what I want.. Won't have people on the Internet telling me what I can or can't carry. Especially after last years frantic email campaign to fight for our right to have constitutional carry.

    So today, I put the Beretta mouse gun away, and this week only I am carrying my classic M1917 Colt in 45 ACP with moon clips.

    Wait.. does having extra moon clips and 6 shots give me an advantage. Maybe, but its the closest thing I have to a 5 shot snubby.
    Sounds like a good one. Works for me.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,896
    149
    Columbus, OH
    Which 10+1 or greater capacity semiauto with modern sight options (night sights, fiber optic) in the same size and weight class as J-frame size revolvers existed 100 years ago? The reference to outdated technology is more about the capacity and less about the operating system. More rounds = more chances to not be DAF, if your situation calls for it. Really not hard to understand.
    "Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce’s answer was, 'Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot.' " - Jeff Cooper
     
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