Micro Alternative & Renewable Energy

[indyjohn]

I built my grid in my spare time. Started in 2017, it went online in 2020. It is a stand-alone system of my own design, all the research came from the Interwebz. Northern Arizona Wind & Sun, Shop Solar Kits, among others provided a wealth of information and advice.

Short description: 800w Grape Solar panels, 2200w Samlex Inverter Charger, 400Ah AIMS Power LiFePo battery bank. Off grid setup. For what we need, it does a great job. Provides 120V 20a service to our cabin in the woods.


Yes, the far array is crooked.


Left- solar, center- wind, right- solar










This is the highest input I've seen on the solar array so far. Keep in mind
it is literally in the woods and not in an open field. Optimumal sun is at about
1:30 in the afternoon this time of year.

 

[JeepHammer]

I have no doubt you can grow an orange in your part of IN. There's a guy been growing citrus in Nebraska for 25yrs and all he's doing is low grade geo without any heat storage and no berming. If you store the excess daytime heat in the ground and have any insulation at all you can keep a greenhouse shirtsleeve warm all winter.

I'm up north just about eight miles from the shore of Lake Michigan and that lake gives us an unusual number of cloudy days. That's my only concern. We'd probably have 20% more annual sun twenty miles further south,......and not half as much snow.

I'm hoping...
I have orange trees I grew from seeds, just waiting for maturity now.
Made it through the seedling die off (probably thermal shock) with about 80% of seedlings, and they are growing pretty well.
Got buds this year but no mature fruit.
Maybe next year.

I'd like to try coffee.
Coffee is a shrub and needs shading, so I'd think a sunken greenhouse would do a good job of that.
The issue is, the shrub wouldn't produce enough beans to do much, so I'm trying oranges first.
I'm a coffee junky, that might get out of hand quick!

I don't know how it got in, but I battled English ivy all year. That stuff will be around when there is nothing but cockroaches & Twinkies left...

One thing I found out about English ivy, it's a GREAT infrared blocker. It blocks thermal signature as well as any synthetic material I've ever seen.

 

[JeepHammer]

I built my grid in my spare time. Started in 2017, it went online in 2020. It is a stand-alone system of my own design, all the research came from the Interwebz. Northern Arizona Wind & Sun, Shop Solar Kits, among others provided a wealth of information and advice.

Short description: 800w Grape Solar panels, 2200w Samlex Inverter Charger, 400Ah AIMS Power LiFePo battery bank. Off grid setup. For what we need, it does a great job. Provides 120V 20a service to our cabin in the woods.

View attachment 163676
Yes, the far array is crooked.

View attachment 163677
Left- solar, center- wind, right- solar

View attachment 163681

View attachment 163682

View attachment 163683

View attachment 163685

View attachment 163687
This is the highest input I've seen on the solar array so far. Keep in mind
it is literally in the woods and not in an open field. Optimumal sun is at about
1:30 in the afternoon this time of year.

That's a pretty good set up.
I always like the idea of modular rather than integrated, you can change any component without shutting the entire system down.

Those little charge controllers are dirt cheap, pretty darned reliable, and very reasonably efficient.

I've not used AIMS batteries, but I have had a peek inside and they use a good BMS, good cells and generally have solid connections.
Not *Exactly* the way I build batteries, but I have different needs than most with the shop sucking amps like crazy once in a while...
I don't know anyone that's ever cooked an AIMS, the only heavier built battery I know of is Battle Born and for there price they better be overbuilt!

For what it's worth (exactly nothing),
They are about perfect for what you are doing.

 

[JeepHammer]

I haven't tried this past my 1900s hit & miss engines, but the flywheel is pretty much the oldest complex technology humans have invented...
(That we know about, potters wheels date back to 4,000 BC)




You would think since I owned & operated a machine shop for more than 20 years I would have stumbled onto something like this...

Big rare earth magnets overcome gravity, so pulling up on the flywheel would reduce weight/friction on bearings.

The big deal would be structural integrity of the flywheel,
A 5,000 pounds that would be a catastrophic mess at "Several Thousand RPM" if the flywheel material failed.

At 80% (plus) efficiency this is VERY promising.
No expiration date on the flywheel either, bearings will be mostly the big maintaince item.

 

[dprimm]

I'd like to try coffee.
Coffee is a shrub and needs shading, so I'd think a sunken greenhouse would do a good job of that.
The issue is, the shrub wouldn't produce enough beans to do much, so I'm trying oranges first.
I'm a coffee junky, that might get out of hand quick!

I had looked into this. 30 plants are supposed to give you enough for 3 cups per day

 

[churchmouse]

The video is about an already e

I haven't tried this past my 1900s hit & miss engines, but the flywheel is pretty much the oldest complex technology humans have invented...
(That we know about, potters wheels date back to 4,000 BC)




You would think since I owned & operated a machine shop for more than 20 years I would have stumbled onto something like this...

Big rare earth magnets overcome gravity, so pulling up on the flywheel would reduce weight/friction on bearings.

The big deal would be structural integrity of the flywheel,
A 5,000 pounds that would be a catastrophic mess at "Several Thousand RPM" if the flywheel material failed.

At 80% (plus) efficiency this is VERY promising.
No expiration date on the flywheel either, bearings will be mostly the big maintaince item.

The video is referring to an already existing tech called ice banks. We put these in schools for years. Not sure what the flywheel tech is about.

 

[churchmouse]

OK this time it is about the flywheel.

 

[JeepHammer]

I had looked into this. 30 plants are supposed to give you enough for 3 cups per day

I don't do 'Drugs' or drink, so coffee is my vice.
Nothing fancy, just Folgers but I'm useless without it.
I've read the guys in California are getting about half normal production, the climate dictates how well the plants grow.

If someone comes up with a hybrid that grows way up north I'd sure consider it, being a dedicated coffee junky!

 

[JeepHammer]

OK this time it is about the flywheel.

I found it interesting since using floating magnetic bearings and vacuum makes it about 80% efficient short term storage.
I wouldn't have thought about vacuum on my own...

The only real drag is the generator when rotational energy is converted back into electrical energy.

Another big plus is it's instant electrical energy return, just flip the switch and from zero to full power in milliseconds.
I suppose you would use slip rings & a powered rotor, like most brushless generators (vehicle alternators for instance).

I just found it interesting and apparently it's working for some applications.

 

[dprimm]

I've read the guys in California are getting about half normal production, the climate dictates how well the plants grow.

I suspect you can build a greenhouse to raise them. I don’t have the ground to build one. I want to do something similar to what the guy in Nebraska has done.

 

[JeepHammer]

I suspect you can build a greenhouse to raise them. I don’t have the ground to build one. I want to do something similar to what the guy in Nebraska has done.

I saw that video and it's what I've done for warming/cooling the house, keeping the cold storage cold & vented, and I went that direction with the greenhouse.

I went deeper, I'm about 6' below mean ground level, well below the frost line, or where the frost line used to be.

I didn't have the money to go really big, this is a 'Hobby', but I can see spending more money if *I* can grow citrus & coffee!

Its not a question if *Someone* can do it, the question is if *I* can do it...
I screw up on a regular basis, I take nothing for granted.

Right now it's a VERY low consumption.
Very little water, very little electricity, heat has all been geothermal, etc.
I recover/recycle water/fertilizer mix, so it's just what the plants use or evaporates.

Since the roof vents open on thermal energy (temperature) I don't have to be out there but every two or three days.

I have a banana tree that's doing well, it's not a full size but it's supposed to produce bananas... Still waiting...

If the wife keeps plugging things in I'm going to need a machete to get through!
I don't think she understands how big some of these things are going to get.
The sun room attached to the house looks like a jungle, but she's had more than 10 years to plant that thing full... And full it is!

Nice place to sit and think on those short, cold winter days when people get the 'blues'.

 

[kaveman]

Well, I guess I'm committed to 48vdc,......just placed a pre-order for three of these batteries.

EG4 48V 100AH LiFePower4 Battery

ADD-ON CHARGER DEAL Get the EG4 LiFePo4 Battery Charger for 33% off in cart DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING 48V EG4-Lifepower4 Signature Solar’s premier lithium battery, GYLL, has been rebranded to EG4. You can expect the same great battery with the same top-of-the-line, Tier One, A+...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Still working on an all-in-one inverter/controller/charger. I like the Growatt 8kw but not in stock anywhere. I don't mind waiting for it but I'd like to have it at least ordered before I go away for a month.

GROWATT (48V / 8Kw / 250VDC) Split Phase Off-Grid Inverter

GROWATT, AUTO TRANSFORMER, INVERTER, SPLIT PHASE, OFF GRID EG4 GYLL 6000W 6KW USA GRID OFF GRID-TIE INVERTER SOLAR POWER CONVERTER GENERATOR SUNPOWER SUNPRO SOLARK BIG BATTERY LITHIUM HOME BACKUP RESIDENTIAL SOLAR SYSTEM SPLIT-PHASE 120VAC CHARGE CONTROLLER BATTERY CHARGER 18KW SOLAR...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Watts 24/7 doesn't seem to show anything close to this and Sig Solar won't put them up for pre-order.

 

[JeepHammer]

Well, I guess I'm committed to 48vdc,......just placed a pre-order for three of these batteries.

EG4 48V 100AH LiFePower4 Battery

ADD-ON CHARGER DEAL Get the EG4 LiFePo4 Battery Charger for 33% off in cart DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING 48V EG4-Lifepower4 Signature Solar’s premier lithium battery, GYLL, has been rebranded to EG4. You can expect the same great battery with the same top-of-the-line, Tier One, A+...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Still working on an all-in-one inverter/controller/charger. I like the Growatt 8kw but not in stock anywhere. I don't mind waiting for it but I'd like to have it at least ordered before I go away for a month.

GROWATT (48V / 8Kw / 250VDC) Split Phase Off-Grid Inverter

GROWATT, AUTO TRANSFORMER, INVERTER, SPLIT PHASE, OFF GRID EG4 GYLL 6000W 6KW USA GRID OFF GRID-TIE INVERTER SOLAR POWER CONVERTER GENERATOR SUNPOWER SUNPRO SOLARK BIG BATTERY LITHIUM HOME BACKUP RESIDENTIAL SOLAR SYSTEM SPLIT-PHASE 120VAC CHARGE CONTROLLER BATTERY CHARGER 18KW SOLAR...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Watts 24/7 doesn't seem to show anything close to this and Sig Solar won't put them up for pre-order.

You have probably done the research yourself, but 48 volt is a crap ton more efficient in both electrical transfer
AND
The cost of wiring!
Copper is stupid expensive, the lower the voltage the bigger the wire size...

For the house, I'm at 48V.
Its WAY easier with current inverters than it used to be, but we are still stuck with automotive voltage battery graduations (6V, 12V, multiples of 12V).

The shop is a different story, but I have to output 3 phase and efficient 48V inverter for 3 phase is difficult to find below 72V or 96V.

I'm pretty happy with Growatt for the cost.
Its not the most efficient, it's not got every option, and it's also not $5,000 and up.

I would recommend getting a self regulating power supply...
This is simply a battery charger in the event the Growatt charge controller fails.
Self regulating power supply is set and forget if you have to use it as a charger, and it lets you negoate with the seller for warranty.
(If the inverter function fails, the unit is simply out of service, no getting around that failure)

A self regulating power supply (charger) also lets you check health of cells.
Discharge to prescribed bottom voltage (bottom charge matching),
Then charge to the same top voltage (top charge matching) when you cycle cells by themselves to check degredation over time, or to find bad cells.

Charge, load/meter/discharge, see what the cells are pulling on their own,
Then recharge before going back in battery banc.

At half C (0.5C) charge rate I'm seeing about 1% to 1.5% degredation a year!
That's not bad!
If you use the industry standard of about 80% rated capacity as benchmark, that means my cells will last about 15 years.

I'm sure cells will degrade faster as they age, but I'm REAL happy with the degredation rate right now...
And I've been tracking mine for over 3 years, coming up on year 4.

Longevity is a huge factor in justifying the cost, so they longer they stay viable the better the new chemistry batteries are.
Do the math and the kW cost plummets, and I'm real happy about that!

If my opinion is worth anything (what you paid for it)...
I have world with several of that battery banc little brothers, this is the latest/greatest so I haven't laid my greasy mitts on one yet.

Not ONE single failure and I've probably worked on a hundred.

Breaker is CURRENT draw, not stuctly amps. This is a HUGE deal when working with DC power.

Don't forget to install CURRENT breakers in your breaker box! I made that mistake, the first time I pinched an extension cord (dead short) it killed the inverter before the AMP breaker could trip.
Its worth the cost to protect the inverter.

The hookup to Growatt inverters was dirt simple...
The hardest part was figuring out how to scroll though the screens, then shut down & restart to save your changes.
(Yes, I miss that stuff in the instructions and have to ask while wiring is no problems for me... Go figure...)

The Growatt inverters I got (5,000s) were Catagory 5 (Cat 5) cables, so I got some connectors & crimping tool and shortened my cords...
NO WADS OF COILED EXCESS WIRE!
Coils/wads are induction antennas, cause communications errors.

Any computer guy can do your ends once you know length so you get a nice, neat install.
Ends are 15¢ and it takes 2 minutes.

*IF* you think I can help, feel free to contact me directly, I'll try!

 

[indyjohn]

Well, I guess I'm committed to 48vdc,......just placed a pre-order for three of these batteries.

EG4 48V 100AH LiFePower4 Battery

ADD-ON CHARGER DEAL Get the EG4 LiFePo4 Battery Charger for 33% off in cart DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING 48V EG4-Lifepower4 Signature Solar’s premier lithium battery, GYLL, has been rebranded to EG4. You can expect the same great battery with the same top-of-the-line, Tier One, A+...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Still working on an all-in-one inverter/controller/charger. I like the Growatt 8kw but not in stock anywhere. I don't mind waiting for it but I'd like to have it at least ordered before I go away for a month.

GROWATT (48V / 8Kw / 250VDC) Split Phase Off-Grid Inverter

GROWATT, AUTO TRANSFORMER, INVERTER, SPLIT PHASE, OFF GRID EG4 GYLL 6000W 6KW USA GRID OFF GRID-TIE INVERTER SOLAR POWER CONVERTER GENERATOR SUNPOWER SUNPRO SOLARK BIG BATTERY LITHIUM HOME BACKUP RESIDENTIAL SOLAR SYSTEM SPLIT-PHASE 120VAC CHARGE CONTROLLER BATTERY CHARGER 18KW SOLAR...

shop.signaturesolar.us

Watts 24/7 doesn't seem to show anything close to this and Sig Solar won't put them up for pre-order.

If you have any prior experience with using lead acid batteries for powering a structure (shop, house, etc), you will be amazed with how differently the LiFePo batteries perform. I can't say enough about how they improved the livability of our cabin from before when I was using decent deep cycle batteries.

 

[kaveman]

I'm kinda like a 4yr-old with this stuff. I know some words but don't really understand what any of it means. Anyone with knowledge would find a discussion very aggravating cause I'd start yammering away like I knew what I was talking about but I'd be so FOS it'd be comical.

That said, the report on these batteries is that they're rated for 7000 charge cycles from 100% down to 20% and back again. That's 20yrs worth of deep discharge and although I really don't know yet, I'm fairly sure that using up 80% capacity would be a rare exception in my case. Dunno,.....could always add an additional battery or two to the stack,......but I think I'll try to maximize things on the charge side first(while minimizing usage).

I'll have a standby propane gen for alternate charging and power, probably two of them. I still have four Generacs out in the shop crated up on pallets(got a fantastic geal on them some yrs ago). I'll have to have a garage/shop as well but it won't be something I'll use daily. For any heavy tool use or welding I'll run strictly off the generator and at most have lights and a single outlet wired into the home/solar.

 

[kaveman]

I was stuck trying to decide whether to go 24v or 48v. I liked the fact that 24v won't bite me when I do something stupid where 48v will. Seemed like the big boy decision was to just go with 48v and not do anything stupid. We'll see how that works out. I am so drawn to the stupid,.....it'll be a challenge.

 

[dprimm]

*IF* you think I can help, feel free to contact me directly, I'll try!

Same here.

The batteries you ordered got very high praise out there.

Call Ian at watts247. Talk w him about what you want. He will tell you if he has stuff coming in.

 

[dprimm]

Watts 24/7 doesn't seem to show anything close to this and Sig Solar won't put them up for pre-order.

Call Ian.

 

[kaveman]

I just did and I ended up ordering the 6000T. He only carries the 6000 and the 12000 and just sold the last 12000 today. Signature Solar has pretty much nothing in stock. Ian has the 6000T but stuff is selling out fast and he said he probably won't have anything much longer,......and he said he has no idea if/when his next order might show up, although since it's not even on a boat yet it will be at the very least a few months(if ever,......I don't remember if he said that or I just thought it).

Problem is that I'm planning to leave on a month long trip Monday AM and can't be here to receive the order. The good news is that my trip is a drive to northern California and I'll be driving through Salt Lake either Tuesday or Wednesday depending on how late a start I get,.....so I'll be driving down to WATTS 24/7 to pick up the little beastie.

I'm sure the 6000T will be a good unit. It accepts 250vdc solar input but is limited to 5kW(the 8000T would accept 7kW). If 5kW isn't enough I can charge through a separate charge controller but I will wait to see what the system does once built before worrying about that. I almost for one second went with the 12000T just for the increased solar charging but that's when Ian told me that he'd just sold his last 12000 earlier today.

 

[snorko]

FYI on changing technology. I was in a seminar this week and one of the presenters was the president of the solar company that did the Indy Airport project. He said when they did it it was 89 acres. Current panels and systems could produce the same power on 43 acres.