Mature Whitetail Buck Harvest Highest Ever Reported in U.S.

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  • AtTheMurph

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    Jan 18, 2013
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    I’d like to know where they got the stats since most states don’t require any kind of aging on deer. Add to it that the only way to reliably age a deer is by tooth deformation not body/rack size and I got some serious doubts about this stat.
    I am pretty sure they do an actuarial study were they sample say 1,000 deer and then extrapolate.
     

    Winamac

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    Sep 11, 2011
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    Logansport
    Yeah...the world was a better place when the slogan was; "If it`s brown it`s down". Since the trophy mania has become the norm, leasing agents have caused many regular hunting guys to lose the properties they`ve hunted for decades. The "serious" hunters mock and berate the meat hunter who shoots what makes them happy and stocks their freezers with venison, just because the antler inches weren`t, in their minds, adequate.
    Hunting used to be, and should be about fun, time spent with friends and family, time spent in the woods and field, searching for unarguably, the most popular big-game animal in North America, the white-tail deer.
    The above kind of happened to me. I had been hunting a 80 acre plot in White county free of charge for 15 years. Took multiple deer and rabbits on the property. It was a "honey hole". I used to get written permission every year. Had a good relationship with the land owner. Even did small jobs on the property to help out. Then one year when I went to get my permission for the season. I was informed that the land owner had been approached by a leasing agent from Kansas and this agent told him he could get him (land owner) thousands of dollars from hunters to hunt on his 80 acres. The land owner told me I would have to go through this leasing agent to hunt the property. I called said leasing agent and he wanted to charge me $1500.00. I asked the land owner "why"? he said " Well...if you owned property and it could make money for you, wouldn't you do it?" I guess that is his prerogative. That was 15 years ago. Have not hunted deer since.Tried. Got nowhere?
     

    phylodog

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    Mar 7, 2008
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    Arcadia
    Indiana sucks as far as public land hunting, hell I think every state east of the Mississippi does and a few west of it as well.

    Losing a lease sucks, especially when you’ve dumped hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into a property, I’ve been there and haven’t killed a deer or a turkey since it happened two years ago. It sucks but it is what it is and I don’t fault someone for taking advantage of an opportunity to earn some money from something they own. Life hasn’t landed me in a position where I could buy my own or afford to compete with a MLB pitcher in a bidding war for a lease but I’m not mad at him either.
     

    gregr

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    Jan 1, 2016
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    West-Central
    The above kind of happened to me. I had been hunting a 80 acre plot in White county free of charge for 15 years. Took multiple deer and rabbits on the property. It was a "honey hole". I used to get written permission every year. Had a good relationship with the land owner. Even did small jobs on the property to help out. Then one year when I went to get my permission for the season. I was informed that the land owner had been approached by a leasing agent from Kansas and this agent told him he could get him (land owner) thousands of dollars from hunters to hunt on his 80 acres. The land owner told me I would have to go through this leasing agent to hunt the property. I called said leasing agent and he wanted to charge me $1500.00. I asked the land owner "why"? he said " Well...if you owned property and it could make money for you, wouldn't you do it?" I guess that is his prerogative. That was 15 years ago. Have not hunted deer since.Tried. Got nowhere?
    I feel for you buddy, and I`m sorry for your loss. I know how that hurts.

    I used to eat, sleep, and breathe deer hunting. I grew up in a non-hunting family of 10 kids in Fountain Square, and I have no idea where the bug came from, but I longed to learn to fish and camp and hunt from the time I was a little boy.

    In high school, I worked at Em-Roe sporting goods downtown in the athletic department, and when I was eighteen, I bought an old Winchester 1200 pump 12 gauge shotgun. Shotguns didn`t come with screw-in chokes then, it was a long barrel, full-choke shotgun. With that shotgun and a subscription to Outdoor Life, I learned to squirrel hunt. Eventually, I got the Remington 552 Speedmaster the year my twins were born, and I put a serious hurt on the squirrel population. Over time, as deer became more plentiful in Indiana, I took up deer hunting too. I bought a smooth bore slug barrel for that Winchester, and shot the foster-type slugs out of it. Once I got older and had a better job, I ended up getting a Remington 12 gauge cantilever deer shotgun with a rifled barrel and topped it with a nice Leupold scope from Galyan`s in Plainfield. I hunted HARD, and came close several times, but it took me a LONG time before I finally killed a deer. I hunted the Hoosier National forest on Hardin Ridge. I used to park there at that fire tower, and there`s an old cemetery back in there and sitting on the ground just behind that cemetery, I finally killed my first deer, a little-basket 4-point buck. Took me forever to drag that guy out of there back to that parking area. But I was absolutely HOOKED. I ate, slept and breathed deer hunting.

    Fast forward to today: I lost the small farms I had the great privilege to hunt for 25 years or so in Putnam County. It broke my heart losing access to them. I had watched an awful lot of sunrises and sunsets while deer hunting those little farms. Spent a lot of time in ladderstands, waiting, watching for deer, and pondering life's twists and turns and ups and downs. Killed a few deer along the way too. Made memories that will never leave me. I have a couple deer mounts on the wall, several scull caps, but it`s the memories. It`s remembering some of those vivid, glorious sunrises and sunsets. It`s seeing that doe and her fawn coming through the swale that cold, crisp November morning when the frost on the ground looked like billions of diamonds in the brilliant sunlight. Her turning to look over her shoulder, steam coming out of her nose, and her fawn mimicking her, freezing, playing "grownup", getting prepared for her own life and death struggle in the wild. It`s seeing that really tall 8-pointer rake a tree as the sun was going down that cool November night, then watching as he stepped forward to paw the leaves away and begin peeing down his tarsal glands before I was finally able to hit the release and send that arrow through the pumping station. We backed out and sat for 90 LONG minutes before going back in with flashlights to search for him. He hadn`t gone 45 yards, and he was my second heaviest buck ever, at 201 pounds field dressed. It`s the memories man, (and that wonderful venison doesn`t hurt!).

    It`s obvious and doesn`t even need to be said, certainly landowners can do whatever they want with THEIR land. It`s THEIR land. But I`ve always said, and always WILL say, it`s the obsession with inches of antler that is slowly killing and WILL eventually kill off deer hunting for the average guy and gal in this country. The average blue collar, everyday, working hunter cannot, (and in many instances, WILL not), pay to hunt. We`re losing hunter numbers across the country, and the state DNR`s need the monies from license fees to keep their agencies healthy and viable so they can continue to manage both game and non-game animals. As hunter numbers decline, there are also loses from the Pittman-Robertson Act monies, as these funds come from a federal excise fee on hunting and sporting arms. And, hunters are the DNR`s number one way to help control deer populations and keep them in line with the carrying capacity of the habitat. As more hunters lose access to more and more hunting property, whether that`s due to leasing agents or development, they more and more just begin to drop out of the game. Everyone loses.

    I`m currently hunting with my very good buddy in Putnam County, and I couldn`t be any more appreciative of having a place to hunt. It is different though. No longer am I free to just go hunt anytime I have the time to hunt, as I did at the 2 small farms. I am beholden to wait to be invited, on his schedule, on whatever days he is available to escort me, and I hunt while he feels like hunting, and leave whenever he says it`s time to go. And make no mistake, I am NOT complaining, I am solely pointing out the differences between hunting with him and the decades I had free reign at the 2 small farms. It`s different, and I realize it`s the transition to the day I`ll no longer have a place to hunt. At 64, and in the health I`m in, as much as I`d LOVE to go deer hunt Owen-Putnam State forest, the terrain there is just too rugged. The one thing I can say about my current situation is; I no longer take any hunt for granted. I approach each hunt as though it may be my last time out deer hunting ever, because it truly could be the last hunt. If my buddy says; "Let`s go deer hunting", and if I can be available at all, I GO. If I get more glorious venison in my freezer, I CELEBRATE! Heck, if I even just SEE deer, I celebrate. As my time begins to wind down as a deer hunter, I cling to every minute out there, and try to take it all in, etch it into my mind, my sense of smell, my heartbeat. Deer hunting has become something way, way more in my life than simply killing an animal. It`s come to be something very nearly spiritual, something that defines me, shapes me, and is a yearning inside me that I cannot deny. When the time comes that I can no longer go, something inside of me will die off, and I know that I will grieve the loss for a very, very long time.
     
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    Hookeye

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    Dec 19, 2011
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    armpit of the midwest
    I havent killed 100 deer and douby I ever will.

    Disnt shoot anything last yr. Does were not in good number and all bucks in daylight, small.

    Yr before I shot a mature buck and he was horrible. Had to throw half of it away, such a strong musky taste.

    Had only one doe that was funky and one older buck that took a long while to cook away.

    I like eating venison and would gladly pop a 100# doe or BB w bow and then try to something of good rack.

    But Im also cool w burning my tags end of season in a firepit.

    I dont need to kill a deer.
    And killing small antlered bucks just doesnt do much for me now. 100" 8 pt is a yawner. They eat well though.

    Gets harder to drop the hammer on any of em the older I get.

    Weird.

    But Ive killed a fair number of varmints, waterfowl and upland. By my counting anyway.

    Its getting old, its becoming a hassle.
    And its getting harder to find places to hunt.

    Inused to hunt very good ground. Once youve had that, it toyally friggin sucks to hunt lesser.

    While i may not kill a deer when out, that is my purpose, and I want good deer in the area.

    Hunting crap ground in the hopes of putting a forky in the freezer doesnt cut it. Unless maybe ita public land and youre hunting from the ground w trad gear.

    Guy I knew had a lease down south and a certain outdoor company came in and leased everything at higher price. Landowners couldnt refuse the increase, it ran the common man out....and then it was managed for a few yrs and then celebrity hunters would zap some booners off it for tje shows.

    That was a major company. But look at how many small places are being run by Basecamp leasing and others

    Money talks. The day of helping plant or harvest crops, building a garage, for hunting rights is gone. The handshake business model is gone.

    People saying otherwise have not been paying attention.

    Your spot of a long time can be gone tomorrow. Just a matter of how much money gets waved in front of your landowner.

    Our current landowners are cool. But I suspect we will lose permission when they pass on.
     

    Hookeye

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    Dec 19, 2011
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    armpit of the midwest
    I did the public land thing, longer drive and hardly see a thing. Met some very nice people though.

    Remember my cousins hunting public way back and saying it was a good yr because they actually saw a couple deer, extra special if it had a rack.

    That was a couple decades back, but many BS others w the hippie cosmic stuff of the " experience ". Yeah whatever works for ya buddy.

    A relaxed approach might be more fun.
    But I take hunting very serious.

    I work all yr to live 2 friggin weeks.
    It aint screwing around.
     

    two70

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    Feb 5, 2016
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    Johnson
    Wow, there's so much wrong in such a short article. First, male whitetails are not mature at 3.5 years old, 4.5 should be the minimum for a buck to be consider mature. They are still growing and developing physiologically through their third full year and in any reasonably balanced herd with decent age structure, are just reaching the point where they have a decent chance to successfully participate in the rut.

    Second, killing more 3.5 year old and up(you can safely bet that the majority are 3.5) bucks than 1.5 year olds is hardly something to brag about in most places. If you just have to kill a sub-mature buck, then it makes much more sense to kill a 1.5 year old that is 3 years from being mature than a 3.5 year old is only 1 year from being fully mature. All the time, effort and potential invested in hunting mature deer is wasted by taking a 3.5 year old. It's best to pass up any buck that isn't fully mature or at least a personal best but if you must shoot a buck, then shoot one that doesn't have as much time invested in it.

    Third, I'm not sure about the other states but I know Texas has antler restrictions in many areas and I suspect a couple of the other states might as well. That'll tend to skew the results toward older age classes which is seemingly a good thing but not when it comes at the cost of culling off genetically superior(in terms of antler growth) young bucks.

    Lastly, the article, although better than many, tends to suggest that mature bucks = large antlered bucks. Age is only one factor that goes into antler size, often mature bucks are not all that large of antler and many of the largest bucks on record were freakishly large 3.5 year olds.
     

    two70

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    As for the comments here:

    I have a little bit of familiarity with how Texas ages harvested bucks, at least on managed public hunts. They are diligent and do a pretty good job of aging deer on those hunts for the most part and most private land is heavily managed so I have little doubt that many are taking mature deer. As for Indiana, the age structure of our buck harvest is calculated primarily based on the efforts of often, relatively inexperienced, biologists over a few hours on opening weekend of firearms season. In case anyone missed the implication let me restate, the estimated age of our buck harvest for the entire season is based on a little bit of hit or miss age estimation conducted only at check stations at the beginning of firearms season.

    I'm not sure why or how the contention that trophy hunters/ing drives leasing is even a debate. I'm sure there are exceptions but in my experience the brown and down hunters I know don't tend to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on leases. It is not that hard to kill a deer if you're willing to kill any deer and most prefer to invest as little time, effort and money as possible in the endeavor.

    The meat hunter vs. trophy debate is ridiculous. Both sides need the other, trophy hunters need meat hunters to do the population management that they can't or won't do and meat hunters need trophy hunters to practice some restraint and help balance the herd age structure.

    I have often heard the "you can't eat the antlers" refrain but I have yet to meet anyone that believed would honestly shoot a small buck over large buck given equal opportunity and few that I believe would pass even a small buck to shoot a doe given the same opportunity.

    We used to be able hunt 3 bucks per year in Indiana. It was reduced to 2 bucks sometime in the late 80's early 90's with little or no complaint that I recall. Then in the early 2000's the extra archery only buck tag was removed leaving one buck tag for the entire season thanks to a small vocal group of hunters that couldn't kill the kind of bucks they wanted. Unfortunately, as anyone with common sense predicted, removing the archery only buck tag only produced an increase in the firearm and muzzleloader seasons buck harvest to almost equal the reduction in the archery buck harvest. The number of bucks killed wasn't reduced it was merely redistributed, kind of like a welfare program for hunting bucks.

    In my opinion any trophy hunter that thinks hunting is better now than it was in the 80's is either very unaware or a damned fool. Granted, more people are selective now days but that is rather irrelevant given the vastly reduced hunting pressure back then as compared to today and the much easier access. Not to mention that low density, high growth deer populations tend to produce a significantly higher percentage of large antlered bucks according to many studies. Now, meat hunters have a more than reasonable argument that hunting is as good or better today but I'm not sure the reduced hunting pressure and easier access doesn't outweigh the higher population and the over the counter antlerless tags.
     
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