Mandatory Gun Training?

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  • Kirk Freeman

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    2016-04-19-Taxation-is-Theft-1-450x271.jpg

    I feel you are talking down to me and I am offended . . . by everything.
     

    bwframe

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    Tax breaks for firearm sellers that have firearm classes, and who pass along part of those savings to the customer via the price of the gun. For example you buy a gun from a shop offering classes. The shop gets a tax break for every person that purchases a firearm from them and takes the safety class. The shop discounts the price of the gun, partially, due to getting the break. No one is forced to take the class. Could that work?

    Above the line tax deductions for tuition, ammo, travel and lodging for gun training?...

    Correct. Tax incentives to train. The gov't could also further incentivise training by making all firearms purchase sales tax a deduction, if the purchaser produced certificates of further training.
     

    Ggreen

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    Correct. Tax incentives to train. The gov't could also further incentivise training by making all firearms purchase sales tax a deduction, if the purchaser produced certificates of further training.

    I'd rather not pay for the beauracracy that would have to be in place to find and approve training courses and instructors.
     

    Joegrz308

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    I think we have all encountered people who have no business handling a firearm. I have also encountered people that should not be driving a vehicle. With rights comes responsibility. If you carry a firearm, do yourself and the world around you a favor and get some training. Compete in a shooting sport, it will also help. Defensive firearms training should include marksmanship, gun handling and mindset.
     

    actaeon277

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    Well, while I dont disagree we all need training, mandatory is wrong.

    I might change my tune when we first have:

    Mandatory civics classes prior to allowing citizens to vote (and mandatory voterID, purple finger ink, etc)
    Mandatory parenting classes for those wanting to have kids
    Mandatory economics/home finance classes for those wanting govt handouts
    etc, etc, etc

    Ohio requires mandatory weapons training before one can apply for a permit.

    Obviously it doesn't work....

    How much is this training going to cost? Cost is a real obstacle for many. I have already had to spend $100+ to exercise one of my constitutional rights. Range time, ammo, and good training all cost money. These trainers will have to get paid too. A good trainer is not going to do it for free.

    Who decides what kind and how much training is necessary? Politicians already spend enough time writing regulations about things they don't understand. Nobody has to have mandatory training or get a license to go online and spout nonsense. Don't forget we'll also probably have to add some inspectors to make sure that the training is being done properly.

    While I spend a decent amount of money and time on training every year, and I think everyone should get training, I don't think it should be mandatory. Not everyone is in a place geographically or financially where they can go put a couple hundred rounds downrange whenever they want. I am blessed enough now to be a member of a private gun club and to be able to afford to go shoot pretty much as much as I want. That has not always been the case.

    To the op, both those situations sucked. In the first I would have at minimum said something to the RO and let them handle the situation. Can't blame you for your reaction to the second situation. When you talk to them this week, maybe offer a trip to the range the next time they head your way. Maybe find some training in their area to suggest.

    I rank "mandatory firearms training" up there with the utopia that is Socialism; Sounds good on paper, but boy howdy do the wheels come off the bus fast.

    ...and let me guess. They come out the other side completely safe and Ohio's permit holders have an appreciable lower ND rate than Indiana LTCH holders, right?

    Somewhat related: have you heard of the concept of "feel good" legislation?

    Our mandatory driver's education seems to be working SO well....

    Same subject came up in the classes I taught yesterday and the day before.
    Even with all the stupid stuff I see people do constantly and all the stupid stuff I read about people doing constantly, I am, still, opposed to mandatory training to obtain a discretionary, government issued permit to exercise a constitutionally protected/guaranteed right.

    We, as a people, have abdicated and projected sovereign rights onto others to control us by licensing portions of those rights back to us as privileges.

    Although Indiana is one of the least restrictive states, the first eight pages (8 pages!) of IC 35-47-2 address solely the License to Carry a Handgun.
    Rather than mandated training or even training paid for by "the government," I like the idea of a tax credit, to a certain level, for firearms training. That subject came up toward the end of a recent appearance on the NRA's Cam & Company show.
    https://www.nratv.com/series/cam-an...episode/cam-and-company-season-13-episode-132

    All of this.


    States with mandatory gun training are not safer than States that don't.
    Yes, I think people should get training.
    No, I don't think it should be mandatory.
     

    actaeon277

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    Our mandatory driver's education seems to be working SO well....

    Not stating anything what so every about how good the mandatory training is. But the CCW training I personally received was decent. Back when I had to take it, it was two days. One day in the classroom, one day on the range. One woman in our class did not pass. But at least I know in Ohio, anyone who has a CCW/CHL has at least shot a gun.

    This is basically how I feel about driver's licenses. You probably wouldn't want a slew of people running around with a driver's license who have never drove a car before, right? There will be of course people that naturally excel, and some will probably even seek further defensive driving/open track training. Even if the average 16yr old doesn't not drive great right out of driver's ed, they at least have some experience.

    Read eldirector's statement.
    There used to be no required training.
    Yet.... people drove better.
     

    actaeon277

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    And a bureaucracy will make this kind of training mandatory

    [video=youtube;NX6GKntzJbs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6GKntzJbs[/video]



    [video=youtube;fIv5-27MqOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIv5-27MqOY[/video]
     

    bwframe

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    I'd rather not pay for the beauracracy that would have to be in place to find and approve training courses and instructors.

    That's presumptuous. Besides the fact you wouldn't be paying for anything. The training incentive would be tax credits/deductions. No one required to participate.

    Lots of organizations out there that are not the gov't to monitor and approve trainers.
     

    Doublehelix

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    Rather Ironic to me that you think mandatory training would help and use as an example of someone (your coworker) from Ohio demonstrating extreme bad firearm discipline.

    Whoa! If you read my original post, I do *NOT* advocate for mandatory training. Not at all.

    Does she need training or someone to slap her a few times until she gets it? Yes. She is a death waiting to happen if that is how she handles her firearm.
     

    chipbennett

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    About a week ago, I was at an indoor range where some guy came in with two teen aged boys, and pulled an AR-15 (or some similar facsimile) and started waving it all around sweeping every corner of the range including me and the two boys. He then pulls out a screwdriver, has the rifle pointed at the boys, and starts working on something on the gun. I packed up left within seconds.

    Carry of a rifle does not require an LTCH.

    Then on Friday, I had a woman work colleague come into town from Dayton, OH for some meetings, and at lunch we got to talking and somehow the topic of guns comes up, and as it turns out, she has an OH carry permit and carries a small Ruger revolver with her at all times (she had it in the car during lunch).

    When I lived in Ohio, I was required to take 12 hours of training, over 2 days, to get my CWP. This woman had to take at least the 8 hours currently required.

    So, I'm failing to see how adding required training to the Indiana LTCH would have changed either of these two incidents. :dunno:

    Besides, what you are describing is easily resolved with little more than 5 minutes of education, for anyone who halfway cares about safe firearms handling. Several hours (or multiple days) of "required" training that deals mostly with the legal aspects of carrying/using a firearm would not make any difference.
     

    chipbennett

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    I'm all for mandatory training if you have a CCW. I'm originally from Ohio. Seeing people going through a CCW course is downright scary.

    You have evidence that Ohio's mandatory training has resulted in fewer injuries or fewer unjustified use of firearms than in Indiana (which is the #1 state in the country in percent of adults with carry licenses)?
     

    chipbennett

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    Not stating anything what so every about how good the mandatory training is. But the CCW training I personally received was decent. Back when I had to take it, it was two days. One day in the classroom, one day on the range. One woman in our class did not pass. But at least I know in Ohio, anyone who has a CCW/CHL has at least shot a gun.

    This is basically how I feel about driver's licenses. You probably wouldn't want a slew of people running around with a driver's license who have never drove a car before, right? There will be of course people that naturally excel, and some will probably even seek further defensive driving/open track training. Even if the average 16yr old doesn't not drive great right out of driver's ed, they at least have some experience.

    One: driving a car on a public road is not a natural, civil right constitutionally protected against infringement.

    Two: driving (i.e. operating/handling) a car is not analogous to carrying (not handling) a firearm on one's person.
     

    JAL

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    The problem with training like this with those who don't take firearm handling seriously:
    It goes in one ear, resides long enough to pass test, and then promptly gets jettisoned out the other to make room for the latest reality TV show drivel. Then it's back to BAU (Business As Usual) with all the sloppy handling that's gone on before.

    Is that cynical and jaded? Perhaps, but I've seen my share of some very poor handling. Fortunately not very recently. I'll say something about it when I see it now. If they're offended, too bad.

    John
     

    chipbennett

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    I think we have all encountered people who have no business handling a firearm. I have also encountered people that should not be driving a vehicle. With rights comes responsibility. If you carry a firearm, do yourself and the world around you a favor and get some training. Compete in a shooting sport, it will also help. Defensive firearms training should include marksmanship, gun handling and mindset.

    With rights come responsibility, yes - but with freedom comes risk. Liberty is messy, life is risky (and the night is dark and full of terrors).

    Freedom means the freedom to choose to act irresponsibly.
     

    chipbennett

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    ...also the freedom to hold those acting irresponsibly accountable for their behavior.

    Or just shoot them, before they shoot you.

    Absolutely. But they have to be free to act, first, before being held accountable.

    Preventing that action in the first place is not freedom; it is tyranny.
     
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